Knee hurts when cycling

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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by TJR » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Cyclist shouldn't be using roads unless they have special cycle lanes. Otherwise they're just holding up the traffic and are going to be at risk of being hit.

Problem is that we don't have enough cycle lanes in this country. Something that needs to be addressed.

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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by Bodacious Benny » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:15 pm

TJR wrote:Cyclist shouldn't be using roads unless they have special cycle lanes. Otherwise they're just holding up the traffic and are going to be at risk of being hit.

Problem is that we don't have enough cycle lanes in this country. Something that needs to be addressed.
I agree that we need more cycle lanes, but there's no reason at all that traffic can't move freely and safely alongside cyclists. Incompetent drivers are the issue, and an element of bad cyclists behaviour. You could say that pedestrians shouldn't be allowed to cross the road as they're at risk from being hit using your argument.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by biggeordiedave » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:39 pm

TJR wrote:Cyclist shouldn't be using roads unless they have special cycle lanes. Otherwise they're just holding up the traffic and are going to be at risk of being hit.

Problem is that we don't have enough cycle lanes in this country. Something that needs to be addressed.
Cyclists have as much right to use the roads as drivers do. There is absolutely no need for them to cycle on the road when there is a cycle track alongside though. That f***ing winds me up.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by Hjl » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:45 pm

Fortunately most of the roads I go on each day are industrial roads with next to no traffic. When there is any risk I just get off and push my bike instead, no point risking my life for a new record time.

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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:29 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
TJR wrote:Cyclist shouldn't be using roads unless they have special cycle lanes. Otherwise they're just holding up the traffic and are going to be at risk of being hit.

Problem is that we don't have enough cycle lanes in this country. Something that needs to be addressed.
Cyclists have as much right to use the roads as drivers do. There is absolutely no need for them to cycle on the road when there is a cycle track alongside though. That f***ing winds me up.

Hmmm, where to start with this?

Cycle lanes are excellent for unconfident cyclists who are travelling at slow speeds and alone. Cycle lanes are not excellent for road cyclists who frequently travel upwards of 20 miles per hour and in groups. They are not well maintained, they are full of debris and glass, they dip up and down to accommodate things like dropped curbs and they are often used incorrectly by pedestrians who treat them as pavements. This is only acceptable if it is a dual use pedestrian/cycleway in which case it is not a cycle lane.

The roads are there to be shared and if you want to be fussy about it bikes were here well before cars - tarmac roads were built for bikes and adapted for cars.

We are mostly responsible, often insured, road users, the majority of whom will also be car drivers. There are idiots on both sides of the debate but if you treat cyclists with impatience because you've decided that all cyclists are irresponsible off the back of the few that jump lights etc then you are putting us at huge risk as vulnerable road users. The dent we put in your car when you t-bone us could quite easily be the end of our lives.

With regards to your knees Hjl, I'm really pleased that that small adjustment seems to have helped and hope it gives you many miles of enjoyment. If you ever get a chance to use clip in shoes and pedals then my personal opinion is that they're easier to remove from the bike than a rubber soled trainer in a stirrup style pedal cup. I saw you mention that it felt like taking your life into your hands every time you tried to dismount. With a clip in it's just a simple twist of the heel outwards and you're free.

Incidentally if anyone lives in the London/Surrey area and ever wants a ride out I'd be very happy to meet up.

Picture of my steed to follow.....
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:39 pm

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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by biggeordiedave » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:55 pm

seatonsluicetoon wrote:
biggeordiedave wrote:
Cyclists have as much right to use the roads as drivers do. There is absolutely no need for them to cycle on the road when there is a cycle track alongside though. That f***ing winds me up.

Hmmm, where to start with this?

Cycle lanes are excellent for unconfident cyclists who are travelling at slow speeds and alone. Cycle lanes are not excellent for road cyclists who frequently travel upwards of 20 miles per hour and in groups. They are not well maintained, they are full of debris and glass, they dip up and down to accommodate things like dropped curbs and they are often used incorrectly by pedestrians who treat them as pavements. This is only acceptable if it is a dual use pedestrian/cycleway in which case it is not a cycle lane.

The roads are there to be shared and if you want to be fussy about it bikes were here well before cars - tarmac roads were built for bikes and adapted for cars.

We are mostly responsible, often insured, road users, the majority of whom will also be car drivers. There are idiots on both sides of the debate but if you treat cyclists with impatience because you've decided that all cyclists are irresponsible off the back of the few that jump lights etc then you are putting us at huge risk as vulnerable road users. The dent we put in your car when you t-bone us could quite easily be the end of our lives.

With regards to your knees Hjl, I'm really pleased that that small adjustment seems to have helped and hope it gives you many miles of enjoyment. If you ever get a chance to use clip in shoes and pedals then my personal opinion is that they're easier to remove from the bike than a rubber soled trainer in a stirrup style pedal cup. I saw you mention that it felt like taking your life into your hands every time you tried to dismount. With a clip in it's just a simple twist of the heel outwards and you're free.

Incidentally if anyone lives in the London/Surrey area and ever wants a ride out I'd be very happy to meet up.

Picture of my steed to follow.....
I'm incredibly considerate towards cyclists as I know if I take risks around them, they'll definitely lose if something goes wrong. That of course goes without saying but I feel I need to defend myself a bit as you seem to now have me down as some cyclist bullying maniac. Read the first sentence of my post again.

I just don't understand how the roads, which are often uneven, poorly maintained and covered in glass or debris (especially at the sides... right where the cyclists go) can be seen as a better option than a path specifically put there for use by cyclists. However I don't cycle myself so I'll have to take your word for it.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:20 pm

Not an issue where I live, there's barely any cycle paths.

Did 30 mins on the excercise bike after work, lost 0.6kg in sweat.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by biggeordiedave » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:25 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:Not an issue where I live, there's barely any cycle paths.

Did 30 mins on the excercise bike after work, lost 0.6kg in sweat.
s*** loads of them where I live, rarely used though.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:28 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
seatonsluicetoon wrote:

Hmmm, where to start with this?

Cycle lanes are excellent for unconfident cyclists who are travelling at slow speeds and alone. Cycle lanes are not excellent for road cyclists who frequently travel upwards of 20 miles per hour and in groups. They are not well maintained, they are full of debris and glass, they dip up and down to accommodate things like dropped curbs and they are often used incorrectly by pedestrians who treat them as pavements. This is only acceptable if it is a dual use pedestrian/cycleway in which case it is not a cycle lane.

The roads are there to be shared and if you want to be fussy about it bikes were here well before cars - tarmac roads were built for bikes and adapted for cars.

We are mostly responsible, often insured, road users, the majority of whom will also be car drivers. There are idiots on both sides of the debate but if you treat cyclists with impatience because you've decided that all cyclists are irresponsible off the back of the few that jump lights etc then you are putting us at huge risk as vulnerable road users. The dent we put in your car when you t-bone us could quite easily be the end of our lives.

With regards to your knees Hjl, I'm really pleased that that small adjustment seems to have helped and hope it gives you many miles of enjoyment. If you ever get a chance to use clip in shoes and pedals then my personal opinion is that they're easier to remove from the bike than a rubber soled trainer in a stirrup style pedal cup. I saw you mention that it felt like taking your life into your hands every time you tried to dismount. With a clip in it's just a simple twist of the heel outwards and you're free.

Incidentally if anyone lives in the London/Surrey area and ever wants a ride out I'd be very happy to meet up.

Picture of my steed to follow.....
I'm incredibly considerate towards cyclists as I know if I take risks around them, they'll definitely lose if something goes wrong. That of course goes without saying but I feel I need to defend myself a bit as you seem to now have me down as some cyclist bullying maniac. Read the first sentence of my post again.

I just don't understand how the roads, which are often uneven, poorly maintained and covered in glass or debris (especially at the sides... right where the cyclists go) can be seen as a better option than a path specifically put there for use by cyclists. However I don't cycle myself so I'll have to take your word for it.
Sorry Dave, that was in response to both comments quoted in my reply and not directly aimed at you. The mentality that cyclists shouldn't be on the road is incredibly boring to have to argue against with drivers who really ought to understand the facts in order to actually pass a driving test.

Regarding the cycle lanes versus side of the road, the recommendation is to ride a metre off the side of the road. If you then come across a log, glass, a discarded tyre or brick you signal and move around it, checking over your shoulder before you do so. The ability to make the same manoeuvre when riding at 20mph on a narrow cycle lane is severely reduced given that a swerve will likely take you either onto the road without havinginf warned surrounding vehicles or into a bush, wall or ditch.

It is so much safer to ride with confidence on the road. You push out into the centre of the road where it is unsafe for anything to pass you and you move back to your metre off the side position when it is safe. In traffic you should take the same position as a motorbike and always overtake when a road-based cycle lane is not available. With a bit of luck you will get to the front where you will find a bike box. The thing that frequently annoys me on my commute is how many drivers are so blissfully ignoring the rules that they aren't allowed into them at red lights and the police do dick all about the supposed £70 spot fine they're supposed to give out for flouting the law.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:30 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:Not an issue where I live, there's barely any cycle paths.

Did 30 mins on the excercise bike after work, lost 0.6kg in sweat.
How did you measure that?!
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by Bodacious Benny » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:35 pm

seatonsluicetoon wrote:
Bodacious Benny wrote:Not an issue where I live, there's barely any cycle paths.

Did 30 mins on the excercise bike after work, lost 0.6kg in sweat.
How did you measure that?!
69.9kg when I weighed myself before, 69.3kg afterwards... probably not that scientific but I was bloody dripping at the end!
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by Hjl » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:01 pm

There are no cycle paths here, lots of pavement though and as its Texas everyone is far far too fat to walk on them. They are like private cycle roads.

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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by biggeordiedave » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:03 pm

seatonsluicetoon wrote:
biggeordiedave wrote:
I'm incredibly considerate towards cyclists as I know if I take risks around them, they'll definitely lose if something goes wrong. That of course goes without saying but I feel I need to defend myself a bit as you seem to now have me down as some cyclist bullying maniac. Read the first sentence of my post again.

I just don't understand how the roads, which are often uneven, poorly maintained and covered in glass or debris (especially at the sides... right where the cyclists go) can be seen as a better option than a path specifically put there for use by cyclists. However I don't cycle myself so I'll have to take your word for it.
Sorry Dave, that was in response to both comments quoted in my reply and not directly aimed at you. The mentality that cyclists shouldn't be on the road is incredibly boring to have to argue against with drivers who really ought to understand the facts in order to actually pass a driving test.

Regarding the cycle lanes versus side of the road, the recommendation is to ride a metre off the side of the road. If you then come across a log, glass, a discarded tyre or brick you signal and move around it, checking over your shoulder before you do so. The ability to make the same manoeuvre when riding at 20mph on a narrow cycle lane is severely reduced given that a swerve will likely take you either onto the road without havinginf warned surrounding vehicles or into a bush, wall or ditch.

It is so much safer to ride with confidence on the road. You push out into the centre of the road where it is unsafe for anything to pass you and you move back to your metre off the side position when it is safe. In traffic you should take the same position as a motorbike and always overtake when a road-based cycle lane is not available. With a bit of luck you will get to the front where you will find a bike box. The thing that frequently annoys me on my commute is how many drivers are so blissfully ignoring the rules that they aren't allowed into them at red lights and the police do dick all about the supposed £70 spot fine they're supposed to give out for flouting the law.
I'm not disputing cyclists being allowed to be on the road. I genuinely don't have a problem with it at all providing they do it safely and take into consideration the fact that there are other people using the roads too. I have a problem with people not using facilities designed for cyclists when they are available, but I can see it from your point of view and will look at it differently in future <ok>.

Re: the bit in bold - I also see a good number of cyclists who completely disregard things like traffic lights, crossings, how roundabouts work etc. I haven't seen a lot of cyclists being pulled over and given FPNs by the police for it either. I think there are some cyclists out there that should have to pass a test before they're allowed out on the road too!
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:11 pm

biggeordiedave wrote:
seatonsluicetoon wrote:
Sorry Dave, that was in response to both comments quoted in my reply and not directly aimed at you. The mentality that cyclists shouldn't be on the road is incredibly boring to have to argue against with drivers who really ought to understand the facts in order to actually pass a driving test.

Regarding the cycle lanes versus side of the road, the recommendation is to ride a metre off the side of the road. If you then come across a log, glass, a discarded tyre or brick you signal and move around it, checking over your shoulder before you do so. The ability to make the same manoeuvre when riding at 20mph on a narrow cycle lane is severely reduced given that a swerve will likely take you either onto the road without havinginf warned surrounding vehicles or into a bush, wall or ditch.

It is so much safer to ride with confidence on the road. You push out into the centre of the road where it is unsafe for anything to pass you and you move back to your metre off the side position when it is safe. In traffic you should take the same position as a motorbike and always overtake when a road-based cycle lane is not available. With a bit of luck you will get to the front where you will find a bike box. The thing that frequently annoys me on my commute is how many drivers are so blissfully ignoring the rules that they aren't allowed into them at red lights and the police do dick all about the supposed £70 spot fine they're supposed to give out for flouting the law.
I'm not disputing cyclists being allowed to be on the road. I genuinely don't have a problem with it at all providing they do it safely and take into consideration the fact that there are other people using the roads too. I have a problem with people not using facilities designed for cyclists when they are available, but I can see it from your point of view and will look at it differently in future <ok>.

Re: the bit in bold - I also see a good number of cyclists who completely disregard things like traffic lights, crossings, how roundabouts work etc. I haven't seen a lot of cyclists being pulled over and given FPNs by the police for it either. I think there are some cyclists out there that should have to pass a test before they're allowed out on the road too!
The trouble is that they are unlicensed road users and they are hard to police unless caught directly in the act, which I've only ever seen in central London, not in the suburbs where I commute. But they absolutely should be and they're a disgrace, and it's those people who get drivers wound up about 'all cyclists' and then treat us all with the impatience that leads to dangerous situations.

I go past several queues of traffic on my commute and if I had a camera, or was a policeman with the ability to issue FPNs, I swear I could do thirty or more on my eight mile commute for people sat on Facebook while cruising along at 5mph while they wait to get through the lights. And genuinely not a day has gone by since it started being dark before 6pm back in Autumn that I have not shared the road with at least one person who has forgetten to turn their car lights on. People are so distracted these days when they're driving their lethal weapons around.

As is the case with any debate that risks descending into cyclists vs drivers, I think we need to acknowledge that there are idiots on both sides and all we can do is our best to be vigilant and stay within the law, and look after ourselves and other road users.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by TommyToon » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:53 am

seatonsluicetoon wrote:
biggeordiedave wrote:
I'm not disputing cyclists being allowed to be on the road. I genuinely don't have a problem with it at all providing they do it safely and take into consideration the fact that there are other people using the roads too. I have a problem with people not using facilities designed for cyclists when they are available, but I can see it from your point of view and will look at it differently in future <ok>.

Re: the bit in bold - I also see a good number of cyclists who completely disregard things like traffic lights, crossings, how roundabouts work etc. I haven't seen a lot of cyclists being pulled over and given FPNs by the police for it either. I think there are some cyclists out there that should have to pass a test before they're allowed out on the road too!
The trouble is that they are unlicensed road users and they are hard to police unless caught directly in the act, which I've only ever seen in central London, not in the suburbs where I commute. But they absolutely should be and they're a disgrace, and it's those people who get drivers wound up about 'all cyclists' and then treat us all with the impatience that leads to dangerous situations.

I go past several queues of traffic on my commute and if I had a camera, or was a policeman with the ability to issue FPNs, I swear I could do thirty or more on my eight mile commute for people sat on Facebook while cruising along at 5mph while they wait to get through the lights. And genuinely not a day has gone by since it started being dark before 6pm back in Autumn that I have not shared the road with at least one person who has forgetten to turn their car lights on. People are so distracted these days when they're driving their lethal weapons around.

As is the case with any debate that risks descending into cyclists vs drivers, I think we need to acknowledge that there are idiots on both sides and all we can do is our best to be vigilant and stay within the law, and look after ourselves and other road users.
Bolded is the key here for me. I know when I'm out on the road, either in a group or solo, every cyclist I've seen has been 100% compliant with road laws (traffic lights, junctions, signalling etc...) and equally 99.9% of cars are extremely patient and give me/us plenty of room but it's clear there are outliers on both sides of the debate.

On a separate note, which part of Surrey are you in? I'm a bit north in Maidenhead but will be heading into the Surrey hills for training rides in the near future so if you fancy seeing me struggle up some of the climbs give me a shout!
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:08 pm

I'm in Croydon and I usually go either from here or get the train down to Gatwick and do loops from there. I will also sometimes ride out with a Addiscombe Cycle Club who go from Coulsdon which I think is where Overseas Toon lives if I remember rightly (coming with us OT?).

My loops will tend to take in Leith Hill, Box Hill, Coldharbour Lane etc and then over into Kent and East Surrey for Kidds Hill AKA 'The Wall', Yorks Hill which is an absolute monster and Titsey Hill. Last year I was training for a 115 mile ride that Evans do called King the Downs which took all of them in. This year I'm trying out triathlon for the first time so my riding is going to be more focussed on speed and short distances with a little less climbing.

All of this is subject to actually being able to ride at all as I'm still only four weeks into my recovery from knee surgery and it looks like I've lost a ton of muscle in my left leg.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by TommyToon » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:47 pm

That sounds like one hell of a route for the Evans event! I'm doing one of their ones around Windsor/Henley next month as part of my training but it's only 81 miles. Triathlon is a different beast altogether though so good luck with that! I'm on the endurance route... there are 4 stages of the tour de france in the summer calling my name! 2 in the mountains <erk>
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:57 pm

TommyToonAA wrote:That sounds like one hell of a route for the Evans event! I'm doing one of their ones around Windsor/Henley next month as part of my training but it's only 81 miles. Triathlon is a different beast altogether though so good luck with that! I'm on the endurance route... there are 4 stages of the tour de france in the summer calling my name! 2 in the mountains <erk>
Sounds brilliant. Are you doing the TDF stages for charity or just yourself? I think coming into Surrey for your training is sensible as that Berkshire countryside is pretty flat by comparison. I did Hampton Court to Reading via Henley in January and it felt like a walk in the park for a 50 miler. For £30 entry if King of the Downs coincides with your training I'd highly recommend it. It's a serious challenge.

I'm doing the Crystal Palace triathlon which is just a sprint distance but in my current state I'm going to be pushing to acheive that.
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Re: Knee hurts when cycling

Post by overseasTOON » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:23 pm

seatonsluicetoon wrote:I'm in Croydon and I usually go either from here or get the train down to Gatwick and do loops from there. I will also sometimes ride out with a Addiscombe Cycle Club who go from Coulsdon which I think is where Overseas Toon lives if I remember rightly (coming with us OT?).

My loops will tend to take in Leith Hill, Box Hill, Coldharbour Lane etc and then over into Kent and East Surrey for Kidds Hill AKA 'The Wall', Yorks Hill which is an absolute monster and Titsey Hill. Last year I was training for a 115 mile ride that Evans do called King the Downs which took all of them in. This year I'm trying out triathlon for the first time so my riding is going to be more focussed on speed and short distances with a little less climbing.

All of this is subject to actually being able to ride at all as I'm still only four weeks into my recovery from knee surgery and it looks like I've lost a ton of muscle in my left leg.
I'll meet you for a coffee at the Italian cafe in Coulsdon the Addiscombe Cycle Club use all the time. We can have some cannoli :)

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