General Election 2017

Who are you voting for?

Labour
26
49%
Conservative
10
19%
Lib Dem
7
13%
UKIP
1
2%
Green
1
2%
Not voting
6
11%
Other
2
4%
 
Total votes: 53

Don Sholeone
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Don Sholeone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:36 pm

Colback's Orange Tufts wrote:
Don Sholeone wrote:
He's disliked by the career politicians who would sell their soul their grans soul and their firstborns soul just to be in power, they don't care about being a labour party they care about placing the party in whatever position they think is popular at the time even if it means moving over to the right.
He's been an MP for 24 years, how is he not a career politician?
How about you read the full sentence where i elaborate on the specific type I'm talking about? Rather than just being highly selective on what you choose to notice.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Donkey Toon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:40 pm

Micky Quim wrote:Im a bit surprised that people think the Tory party control the media. Bizarre
Yeah. As an impartial outsider (we don't get to vote in the C.I.), I've always thought it was pretty clear that the media was largely left leaning if anything.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Don Sholeone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:41 pm

I'd like to see some of the Corbyn objecters take those 10 pledges i posted earlier and write a fully informed and factual reason why people shouldn't vote for it. Because all i see is people just mud slinging and repeating what the media say, I've seen very little independent thought or reasoning, just baseless accusations about his character.

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Micky Quim
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Micky Quim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Donkey Toon wrote:
Micky Quim wrote:Im a bit surprised that people think the Tory party control the media. Bizarre
Yeah. As an impartial outsider (we don't get to vote in the C.I.), I've always thought it was pretty clear that the media was largely left leaning if anything.
I would agree historically but I dont tend to read newspapers these days. Just float round a few websites online for news these days.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Micky Quim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:46 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:I'd like to see some of the Corbyn objecters take those 10 pledges i posted earlier and write a fully informed and factual reason why people shouldn't vote for it. Because all i see is people just mud slinging and repeating what the media say, I've seen very little independent thought or reasoning, just baseless accusations about his character.
<laugh> <laugh> <laugh> I'll do that as homework this weekend

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Donkey Toon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:48 pm

Micky Quim wrote:
Donkey Toon wrote:
Yeah. As an impartial outsider (we don't get to vote in the C.I.), I've always thought it was pretty clear that the media was largely left leaning if anything.
I would agree historically but I dont tend to read newspapers these days. Just float round a few websites online for news these days.
I don't read the papers either (does anybody these days?), so i'm going mostly on tv news (BBC and C4 mostly).

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Don Sholeone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:50 pm

https://leftfootforward.org/2013/06/eve ... democracy/
SpoilerShow
Newspaper(s)

Combined print and online readership
(In brackets print alone)

Effective owner/s

Information about effective owner/s

Political orientation of newspaper/s

% of combined print and online (Print alone)
The Sun/The Sun on Sunday

13,674,000
(12,765,000)

Rupert Murdoch

Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

18.6%
(20.7%)
The Mail/ Mail on Sunday

12,188,000
(9,534,000)

Lord Rothermere

Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax

Supported Tories in 2010

16.5%
(15.5%)
Metro

7,986,000
(7,597,000)

Lord Rothermere

Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax

Supported Tories in 2010

10.8%
(12.3%)
Mirror/Sunday Mirror/ People

7,874,000
(7,063,000)

Trinity Mirror plc

Public Limited Company

Supported Labour in 2010

10.7%
(11.4%)
The Guardian/The Observer

5,342,000
(2,898,000)

Scott Trust Ltd

A company with purpose “to secure Guardian’s independence”

Supported Lib Dems in 2010

7.3%
(4.7%)
Telegraph/ Sunday Telegraph

4,998,000
(3,128,000)

David and Frederick Barclay

Billionaires. Live on private island near Sark.
Alleged tax avoiders.

Supported Tories in 2010

6.8%
(5.1%)
The Times/ Sunday Times

4,608,000
(4,418,000)

Rupert Murdoch

Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

6.3%
(7.2%)
The Independent/ i/Independent on Sunday

4,002,000
(2,770,000)

Alexander (father)and Evgeny (son) Lebedev

Alexander is a billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in the UK

Supported anti-Tory tactical voting in 2010

5.4%
(4.5%)
London Evening Standard

3,850,000
(3,443,000)

Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev

Alexander is billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in UK

Supported Tories in 2010

5.2%
(5.6%)
Daily Express/Sunday Express

3,118,000
(2,756,000)

Richard Desmond

Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

4.2%
(4.5%)
Daily Star/Daily Star Sunday

2,972,000
(2,873,000)

Richard Desmond

Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

4.0%
(4.7%)
Daily Record/ Sunday Mail

1,719,000
(1,527,000)

Trinity Mirror plc

Public limited company

Supported Labour in 2010

2.3%
(2.5%)
Financial Times

1,339,000
(928,000)

Pearson plc

Public limited company

Supported Tories in 2010

1.8%
(1.5%)
TOTALS

73,670,000
(61,700,000)

Don Sholeone
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Don Sholeone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 pm

Micky Quim wrote:
Don Sholeone wrote:I'd like to see some of the Corbyn objecters take those 10 pledges i posted earlier and write a fully informed and factual reason why people shouldn't vote for it. Because all i see is people just mud slinging and repeating what the media say, I've seen very little independent thought or reasoning, just baseless accusations about his character.
<laugh> <laugh> <laugh> I'll do that as homework this weekend
Surely its your duty as a responsible voter to actually be informed before you vote, right?

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Seagull
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Seagull » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:07 pm

Interesting to see Labour have neglected any reference to immigration in their 10 pledges given "Controls on Immigration" was literally carved into stone under Miliband.
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Chappy
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Chappy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:08 pm

It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Chappy » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:11 pm

What I got...
SpoilerShow
Image
It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

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Donkey Toon
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Donkey Toon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:https://leftfootforward.org/2013/06/eve ... democracy/
SpoilerShow
Newspaper(s)

Combined print and online readership
(In brackets print alone)

Effective owner/s

Information about effective owner/s

Political orientation of newspaper/s

% of combined print and online (Print alone)
The Sun/The Sun on Sunday

13,674,000
(12,765,000)

Rupert Murdoch

Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

18.6%
(20.7%)
The Mail/ Mail on Sunday

12,188,000
(9,534,000)

Lord Rothermere

Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax

Supported Tories in 2010

16.5%
(15.5%)
Metro

7,986,000
(7,597,000)

Lord Rothermere

Billionaire. Lives in France.
Non-domiciled for UK tax

Supported Tories in 2010

10.8%
(12.3%)
Mirror/Sunday Mirror/ People

7,874,000
(7,063,000)

Trinity Mirror plc

Public Limited Company

Supported Labour in 2010

10.7%
(11.4%)
The Guardian/The Observer

5,342,000
(2,898,000)

Scott Trust Ltd

A company with purpose “to secure Guardian’s independence”

Supported Lib Dems in 2010

7.3%
(4.7%)
Telegraph/ Sunday Telegraph

4,998,000
(3,128,000)

David and Frederick Barclay

Billionaires. Live on private island near Sark.
Alleged tax avoiders.

Supported Tories in 2010

6.8%
(5.1%)
The Times/ Sunday Times

4,608,000
(4,418,000)

Rupert Murdoch

Billionaire. Lives in US.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

6.3%
(7.2%)
The Independent/ i/Independent on Sunday

4,002,000
(2,770,000)

Alexander (father)and Evgeny (son) Lebedev

Alexander is a billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in the UK

Supported anti-Tory tactical voting in 2010

5.4%
(4.5%)
London Evening Standard

3,850,000
(3,443,000)

Alexander and Evgeny Lebedev

Alexander is billionaire, ex-KGB and lives in Russia. Evgeny lives in UK

Supported Tories in 2010

5.2%
(5.6%)
Daily Express/Sunday Express

3,118,000
(2,756,000)

Richard Desmond

Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

4.2%
(4.5%)
Daily Star/Daily Star Sunday

2,972,000
(2,873,000)

Richard Desmond

Billionaire pornographer.
Alleged tax avoider.

Supported Tories in 2010

4.0%
(4.7%)
Daily Record/ Sunday Mail

1,719,000
(1,527,000)

Trinity Mirror plc

Public limited company

Supported Labour in 2010

2.3%
(2.5%)
Financial Times

1,339,000
(928,000)

Pearson plc

Public limited company

Supported Tories in 2010

1.8%
(1.5%)
TOTALS

73,670,000
(61,700,000)
Think there may be errors in this data. Apparently the Lebedev's supported both the Tories and anti-Tory tactical voting in 2010!?

I also like how every Tory supporter is listed as an alleged tax avoider. As somebody who has personally been involved in the administration of what is euphemistically termed in the offshore finance industry as "Tax Efficiency Schemes" there are shed loads of labour peers, supporters (by which I mean major financial contributors) and even a few sitting politicians who take advantage of "tax efficiency schemes". I always thought it particularly hypocritical, and if honest - scummy, that these guys would support or be a member of a party which advocated high taxes for the rich, knowing they had already safeguarded their own wealth from said taxes. Just my opinion though.

I will admit though that the Tory supporters are most definitely guilty as charged. I just don't like the hypocrisy and bias of those specific comments.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by PTAO? » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:18 pm

Chappy wrote:What I got...
SpoilerShow
Image
I got 65% UKIP, but not a high agreement with their immigration <laugh>

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Micky Quim
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Micky Quim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:28 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Micky Quim wrote: <laugh> <laugh> <laugh> I'll do that as homework this weekend
Surely its your duty as a responsible voter to actually be informed before you vote, right?
<laugh> Duty! You must be taking the piss. How many people vote labour constantly because Maggie closed the doomed and failing pits?

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Aldridge Prior » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:04 pm

Micky Quim wrote:Im a bit surprised that people think the Tory party control the media. Bizarre
I'm surprised that you think otherwise <scratch>

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Donkey Toon
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Donkey Toon » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:39 pm

Couldn't figure out how to do a screen grab thingy!

Lib Dems 60%
Labour 59%
Green 52%
Conservative 51%
SNP 50%
UKIP 35%
Plaid Cymru 35%
Sinn Fein 30%
Democratic Unionist 22%
BNP 16%

Probably about right. Although I would, if I had a vote, vote for the Tories because the Lib-Dems and Labour are bloody useless.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by skalpel » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:48 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
skalpel wrote:TV debates have caused possibly irreparable harm to British politics since they debuted nearly a decade ago. It's a good thing that there won't be any.
So it's a good thing that the majority of information is going to be filtered and edited through conservative owned media sources? At least you cannot do that on a live debate, the Tory's are trying to force the fight onto all their own controlled battlefields, how democratic <awe>
It's not though. The MSM doesn't have that kind of monopoly over public opinion anymore; Twitter and Facebook, and by extension a crapload of smaller sources have increasing influence every year. Both Twitter and Facebook are politically geared to the neoliberal left. The BBC is the same.

More to the point though, anybody such as yourself, who cares about policy over image should find the idea of iconifying the political parties disturbing. You're on the one hand despairing that not enough people care about policy and then on the other supporting the jewell in the crown of personality politics.

The UK's best government in 100 years was chiefed by a boring grouch who barely survived the battering of 1940s pre-TV media. Imagine Churchill vs Attlee on television and youtube today, it'd be a f***ing execution and the country would be far poorer for it. The lurch towards centering votes around the style, character and oratory prowess of a single person is not only revolting in theory but it's also alien to the British political system. It's trying to make a president out of a PM, a concept not lost on the ambitious of Westminster.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Hjl » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:53 pm

One of the concerns that I have for who ever wins is that they don't try to repeal the brexit vote. It isn't the job of our representatives to do what they think is best for us, it's their job to represent us. It is incredibly important to the integrity of British democracy that the will of the majority is enacted. If it is not then why bother with voting at all? Why not just go back to a full monarch.

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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Seagull » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:57 pm

Hjl wrote:One of the concerns that I have for who ever wins is that they don't try to repeal the brexit vote. It isn't the job of our representatives to do what they think is best for us, it's their job to represent us. It is incredibly important to the integrity of British democracy that the will of the majority is enacted. If it is not then why bother with voting at all? Why not just go back to a full monarch.
Says who?
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Re: General Election 2017

Post by Hjl » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:07 pm

Leonid Brezhnev wrote:
Hjl wrote:One of the concerns that I have for who ever wins is that they don't try to repeal the brexit vote. It isn't the job of our representatives to do what they think is best for us, it's their job to represent us. It is incredibly important to the integrity of British democracy that the will of the majority is enacted. If it is not then why bother with voting at all? Why not just go back to a full monarch.
Says who?
Britain is a representative democracy.

Representative. They represent us, not dictate to us. We tell them what we want and they do it, not the other way around.

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