Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

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Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Captain Obvious » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:21 pm

ALF wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:42 pm
Captain Obvious wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:35 am
Can't have it. Joelinton was short tonight. Hope he can kick on from the deflected goal but even that was a poor effort and the bloke should have had a hattrick at least before it and it's not good enough to let him off. Bet you if Wilson, who is the f***ing business by the way, hadn't put it to 1-0, Joelinton fucks his up somehow too. TBH I want the bloke to do well of course, but it's got to the point now whereby given the chance I'd cut loose.

Just want to add, as well. I slagged off Karl Darlow previously. Said he wasn't good enough. Hands up, I got that wrong.
Yeah good job we've got Wilson. How did his chance come to him by the way?
Some terrible Palace defending?

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Don Sholeone » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:04 pm

Joelinton just cant win, goal and an assist and people are still scrambling to pick faults. Lets be real he got those because he worked hard and got himself in those positions. Give the lad a break.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by bodacious benny » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:59 pm

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by bodacious benny » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:34 pm

Even tho his shots were poor, he did keep on going and didn’t drop his head. His control and assist for a Wilson’s goal was decent, and he showed good energy to break forward to score late on, even if it was a deflection.

Of course he needs to do it far more often and for the minutes he’s played he hasn’t returned enough, but I’m glad he played his part last night.

On a related note, he now has the same number of PL goals and assists as ASM does this season...

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by ALF » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:42 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:35 am
Can't have it. Joelinton was short tonight. Hope he can kick on from the deflected goal but even that was a poor effort and the bloke should have had a hattrick at least before it and it's not good enough to let him off. Bet you if Wilson, who is the f***ing business by the way, hadn't put it to 1-0, Joelinton fucks his up somehow too. TBH I want the bloke to do well of course, but it's got to the point now whereby given the chance I'd cut loose.

Just want to add, as well. I slagged off Karl Darlow previously. Said he wasn't good enough. Hands up, I got that wrong.
Yeah good job we've got Wilson. How did his chance come to him by the way?

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Sanchino » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:40 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:46 am
But we played a 4-4-2 versus Brighton and it was a disaster. I think we need to have options, the 5 at the back has worked well this season too.
This. I think we should also try a 4-3-3 sometimes to control more of the ball & have a better balance in midfield.. I think the 5 at the back can work if we rotate between 5-4-1 (when defending) and 3-4-3 when attacking (wing backs pushed up attacking) to make it less cautious & more on the front foot.

4-3-3 example :

Darlow
Manquillo Lascelles Fernandez Lewis
Longstaff Shelvey Hayden / Hendrick
Miggy Wilson ASM

4-4-2

Darlow
Manquillo Lascelles Fernandez Lewis
Ritchie Longstaff Shelvey ASM
Wilson Joelinton

3-4-3

Darlow
Lascelles Fernandez Clark
Murphy Longstaff Shelvey Lewis
Miggy Wilson ASM


Options! Also I noticed different players suit different formations.. Joelinton looks better in a 4-4-2 supporting Wilson than being a lone wolf in a 1 central forward formation. ASM's lack of form could be due to playing out position in a CF role with Wilson when 3-4-3 would suit him perfectly out on the left and he looked brilliant when we used 4-4-2 to beat Burnley a month ago when he played as a left mid but he's naturally a wide left winger which to get the best out of him either a 4-3-3 / 3-4-3 / 4-2-3-1 is needed, he's not a central forward at all and looks lost there.

I would like to see Hendrick dropped for Ritchie/Murphy on that right-hand to inject some quality crosses / pace on that side.. Hendrick is tidy, works hard & overall is solid but I think the only reason Bruce sticks him there is because he provides ''defensive cover'' & adds a extra body in midfield to cover Shelvey's work but Ritchie does that and still can go forward crossing the ball, shooting & providing excellent dead-ball delivery. Hendrick doesn't provide Murphy's pace or Ritchie's crossing so I'll drop him but Bruce is more of a reactive than the proactive type so he'll stick with the same team till we lose.

I'll go with the same team against Villa except Hendrick, drop him for either Ritchie/Murphy if ASM isn't fit enough to start.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Captain Obvious » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:27 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:58 am
Captain Obvious wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:54 am
Sidenote - do we know which three players have tested positive for Covid? Krath could be one - would expect him to be on the bench ahead of Yedlin. Then other missing players last night ASM and Carroll both genuine injuries, Lascelles had a knee problem last week too. Hayden not making the squad was strange wasn't it? Could be him. Unless we're talking unregistered - the likes of Atsu, Aarons, Saivet etc.
Wasn’t it players / staff? So could be Hayden + Krafth + a coach.
3 players and 1 coach

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Colly » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:12 pm

I think it was pretty much confirmed that that's why Hayden was out? Either that or I've read a lot of rumours...

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by bodacious benny » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:58 am

Captain Obvious wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:54 am
Sidenote - do we know which three players have tested positive for Covid? Krath could be one - would expect him to be on the bench ahead of Yedlin. Then other missing players last night ASM and Carroll both genuine injuries, Lascelles had a knee problem last week too. Hayden not making the squad was strange wasn't it? Could be him. Unless we're talking unregistered - the likes of Atsu, Aarons, Saivet etc.
Wasn’t it players / staff? So could be Hayden + Krafth + a coach.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Captain Obvious » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:54 am

Sidenote - do we know which three players have tested positive for Covid? Krath could be one - would expect him to be on the bench ahead of Yedlin. Then other missing players last night ASM and Carroll both genuine injuries, Lascelles had a knee problem last week too. Hayden not making the squad was strange wasn't it? Could be him. Unless we're talking unregistered - the likes of Atsu, Aarons, Saivet etc.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Captain Obvious » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:46 am

But we played a 4-4-2 versus Brighton and it was a disaster. I think we need to have options, the 5 at the back has worked well this season too.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Nobbys Trumpet » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:46 am

Colly wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:49 am
The interesting thing for me was that this was essentially a 4 4 2, and worked quite well. The question is if that's what you're playing why are you playing Hendrick over Murphy and losing pace on your right wing? Is it to have some extra cover for Shelvey?

Ritchie as always added some actual decent crossing, but I struggle to see where he can fit in, unless just as an impact sub for either wing. Or **** it, stick him in over Shelvey, can't be much worse...
Could you not put Ritchie on the left wing, Almiron/Fraser on the right and dropping Hendrick (or put him centre mid if needed).

Ritchie is the only person on the team who can whip in a good ball and with playing 2 up top this is pretty essential for me.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Colly » Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:49 am

The interesting thing for me was that this was essentially a 4 4 2, and worked quite well. The question is if that's what you're playing why are you playing Hendrick over Murphy and losing pace on your right wing? Is it to have some extra cover for Shelvey?

Ritchie as always added some actual decent crossing, but I struggle to see where he can fit in, unless just as an impact sub for either wing. Or f*** it, stick him in over Shelvey, can't be much worse...

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by beatski » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:41 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:18 am
7/14 shots on target for us last night - that’s about 4 matches worth!
f***, weve already spent our december budget

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by bodacious benny » Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:18 am

7/14 shots on target for us last night - that’s about 4 matches worth!

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Valentino's fast feet » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:40 am

Plenty have slagged of Joelinton in this match, myself included, for not finishing his chances - but he did get the chances in the first place. See a lot of "if Wilson had it would've..." etc, which again I agree with. Although that's the kind of comment you normally see when one player is playing ahead of another, in this case both were on the pitch. I don't have an answer for this, and not sure I really expect one, but why was Joelinton getting the chances and Wilson not? Was it the formation, the way the individual players themselves were playing? Joelinton had some woeful efforts throughout the game, and the Cahill deflection clearly influenced his goal. To be fair to him though, the work he did to control and then put the ball in for Wilson was pretty tidy.

He's far from my favourite player, and I know I'm one to talk him down myself - but he'll always get more of a short shift than others. Mainly based on his underwhelming performances - but a key factor on why it's been relatively underwhelming is his massively inflated pricetag, which he can hardly cop for. I really want him to come good, I really do. He won't ever be a 40m+ player, that much seems clear. Not sure what the f*** went on there.

The dream scenario is obviously if him and Wilson can build up a partnership and play off of each other. Much was talked about the Wilson/Fraser link, but the latter seems to have moved into the physio room for a bit. Seen brief glimpses of it, but hopefully Fraser can get some fitness under his belt and a proper good run of games.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Sanchino » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:35 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:40 am
Joelinton seems like an alright guy, but as an attacking player his end product is generally f***ing awful. First PL goal in god knows how long? Hopefully he bangs in one or two in the next few games but I doubt it.

Excellent win against a team who will be in/around us come the end of the season tho. Wilson was a steal, without him we’d be screwed, he’s like a massively improved version of Gayle.
This. <applause>

If we didn't give him the no.9 shirt and added all this pressure & high exceptions on him AND didn't of course pay a record 40mil on him it wouldn't be so bad.. like if we paid 4 mil for him it'll reflect better on him or even something like 10 to 15 mil seems about right due to his age back then (22) and potential resale value.. he's not a natural no.9 and I don't think he'll ever be. He's more suited as a second/supporting striker or out-wide. His finishing was awful and if it wasn't for that lucky deflection he wouldn't have scored with his weak & limp efforts all night but at least he's getting himself into the right positions & his movement was much better not to mention his build-up & link-up was terrific for the Wilson goal. Sure he'll most likely never repay what we paid for him& I don't see him ever being a world-beater or 40mil player but the lad's showing signs of improvement and if he can build a good partnership with Wilson then great, but damn I do wish we would have spent that amount on a proper striker.. but hey we addressed that this summer with Wilson who cost half of Joelinton.. imagine that 2 Wilsons is the same as 1 Joelinton??? <erk> <disgrace>

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by bodacious benny » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:40 am

Joelinton seems like an alright guy, but as an attacking player his end product is generally f***ing awful. First PL goal in god knows how long? Hopefully he bangs in one or two in the next few games but I doubt it.

Excellent win against a team who will be in/around us come the end of the season tho. Wilson was a steal, without him we’d be screwed, he’s like a massively improved version of Gayle.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Captain Obvious » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:35 am

Can't have it. Joelinton was short tonight. Hope he can kick on from the deflected goal but even that was a poor effort and the bloke should have had a hattrick at least before it and it's not good enough to let him off. Bet you if Wilson, who is the f***ing business by the way, hadn't put it to 1-0, Joelinton fucks his up somehow too. TBH I want the bloke to do well of course, but it's got to the point now whereby given the chance I'd cut loose.

Just want to add, as well. I slagged off Karl Darlow previously. Said he wasn't good enough. Hands up, I got that wrong.

Re: Match Day - Crystal Palace v Newcastle

by Remember Colo » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:54 pm

ALF wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:58 pm
Joelinton deserved his goal, was the best player on the pitch tonight and looked a real threat.
Too few people will say it, but I actually can't remember a league game in which he got himself into more good positions. People rightfully have mocked his finishing, but I've always thought the biggest issue, especially when playing up front last season, was that he he didn't get himself into good attacking positions in the box to even be ready for chances. Tonight he was actually all around their box and getting on the end of things.

Pretty mediocre match. But as Sherwood was saying on the international matchday feed, it's really hard for two sides that normally concede so much possession to flick a switch and suddenly try and play on the front foot. Sure enough, even with more intent there was a severe lack of chemistry or quality. I don't think it was a robbery of 3 points though. Either side could have won - having actually created some chances (rare for both).

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