Re-naming of St James' Park

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Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by beatski » Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:36 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:52 am
People will think as they want, but one owner did it with no interest in developing the club, one owner wants to do it to grow revenues which is the only way we can try to compete with the elite. Without significant commercial revenue increases we won’t get to where the club wants to be, that’s a fact.

If people are happy with upper midtable and keeping things such as the stadium name that’s fine, if they want to compete for the CL and honours down the line then something has to give (be that stadium naming rights, saudi shirt sponsors etc).

One move cost the club money essentially, one will significantly benefit so it’s entirely reasonable why some people might view it differently imo.
that wasnt part of peoples original argument though, was my point. Didnt see anyone saying the name change would have been alright if Ashley had paid for it at the time. And just read Colly's post, which says it better

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Colly » Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:22 am

This straight line logic (naming rights or midtable) is nonsense though, we keep hearing "well it's this it midtable", or worse "it's this or the ticket prices go up". Surely the way to increase revenues is to rebuild Newcastle to the level we were turn of the century and up our overseas sales like a Man Utd or Liverpool, and get proper kit and sponsor deals again. The stadium rights in the grand scheme of things aren't huge (unless our owners can really play a fast one and shuffle some dodgy money in), and given that even the Glazers have retained Old Trafford as they recognise that a tiny bit of goodwill is worth something I don't see why our fans are so willing to roll over on this one so quickly. That's my view on the situation itself and the reason for my no.

The second conversation as summed up nicely by Beatski is simply that I doubt you'd find a single view at the time of Sports Direct@St James Park of a Newcastle fan saying "I wouldn't mind if it paid for a player", it was all the principle of "you can't change St James Park". I will acknowledge as you say that Ashley's priors will absolute have built a level of resentment already, but that doesn't change the above. Could the new owners bring in Wonga as a sponsor if it funded our growth? What level of Ashley nonsense are we allowing them?

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by bodacious benny » Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:52 am

People will think as they want, but one owner did it with no interest in developing the club, one owner wants to do it to grow revenues which is the only way we can try to compete with the elite. Without significant commercial revenue increases we won’t get to where the club wants to be, that’s a fact.

If people are happy with upper midtable and keeping things such as the stadium name that’s fine, if they want to compete for the CL and honours down the line then something has to give (be that stadium naming rights, saudi shirt sponsors etc).

One move cost the club money essentially, one will significantly benefit so it’s entirely reasonable why some people might view it differently imo.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Colly » Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:40 am

Beatski wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:35 pm
Ashley changes the name of the stadium: "the name change is a disgrace"

Saudis want to change the name of the stadium: "actually, it was just the way Ashley went about it. and it'll bring us more money"

The revisionism of opinions of the first instance would be funny if it wasnt so sad
That's what I've been trying to say but better, thanks!

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by gola » Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:51 pm

Beatski wrote:
Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:35 pm
Ashley changes the name of the stadium: "the name change is a disgrace"

Saudis want to change the name of the stadium: "actually, it was just the way Ashley went about it. and it'll bring us more money"

The revisionism of opinions of the first instance would be funny if it wasnt so sad

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by beatski » Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:35 pm

Ashley changes the name of the stadium: "the name change is a disgrace"

Saudis want to change the name of the stadium: "actually, it was just the way Ashley went about it. and it'll bring us more money"

The revisionism of opinions of the first instance would be funny if it wasnt so sad

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Slim999 » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:09 pm

Remember the name change will be temporary to bring in some revenue .

To all fans it will remain SJP.

And it go back to being fully named as SJP once we are revenue rich

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Don Sholeone » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:28 pm

Also important to remember when Ashley did this he had already f***ed us over numerous times and there was already a high level of animosity towards his ownership.

Under this ownership we know growth and ambition is a serious goal and we know stadium sponsorship is pretty much a given if you want to compete at the top end. The only clubs up there without the sponsorships are those who already had humongous marketability and revenue stream. The rest are a million miles away from ever competing financially.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Colly » Fri Oct 14, 2022 5:08 pm

I know the sums are different, but it is literally going to be the owners changing the name to promote their own interests again...

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Remember Colo » Fri Oct 14, 2022 4:06 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:43 pm
Blue & Maroon wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:37 pm


People weren't kicking off about whether it was for Ashley's gain at the time though, it was literally just you can't change SJPs name. No qualifiers just you cant do it.

I realise this debate is a bit picky but it is a forum after all <laugh>
Lol yeah doesn’t bother me!

I wonder (hypothetically) if it would have been a total firm no under Ashley if he’d said “we’ll get £30m and it will go on new signings” or if people would still have been 100% no. I suspect the latter, but presumably there’d be more people at least on the fence.
Reasonable question. I don't think people were cool when he said the new plan was for [insert non-Sports Direct sponsor] @ St. James' Park, but I guess it still would have carried the skepticism that new commercial income actually would go towards player investment.

This feels slightly different too in that it's not as if it would even necessarily be real outside investment, since it'll just be money from one of their other companies/investments, and it would theoretically be about getting around FFP, not actually bringing in new money to invest.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by bodacious benny » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:43 pm

Blue & Maroon wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:37 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:27 pm
Personally I think there is a difference between why Ashley did it (100% personal gain and nothing else) and if the current owners did it (to be able to increase the spending power of the club) so it is a different argument.

If it was something like “XXXX @ SJP” stadium it wouldn’t particularly bother me, but I like having the heritage of the SJP name so wouldn’t want to lose it.
People weren't kicking off about whether it was for Ashley's gain at the time though, it was literally just you can't change SJPs name. No qualifiers just you cant do it.

I realise this debate is a bit picky but it is a forum after all <laugh>
Lol yeah doesn’t bother me!

I wonder (hypothetically) if it would have been a total firm no under Ashley if he’d said “we’ll get £30m and it will go on new signings” or if people would still have been 100% no. I suspect the latter, but presumably there’d be more people at least on the fence.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Blue & Maroon » Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:37 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:27 pm
Personally I think there is a difference between why Ashley did it (100% personal gain and nothing else) and if the current owners did it (to be able to increase the spending power of the club) so it is a different argument.

If it was something like “XXXX @ SJP” stadium it wouldn’t particularly bother me, but I like having the heritage of the SJP name so wouldn’t want to lose it.
People weren't kicking off about whether it was for Ashley's gain at the time though, it was literally just you can't change SJPs name. No qualifiers just you cant do it.

I realise this debate is a bit picky but it is a forum after all <laugh>

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by bodacious benny » Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:20 pm

Remember Colo wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:58 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:27 pm
Personally I think there is a difference between why Ashley did it (100% personal gain and nothing else) and if the current owners did it (to be able to increase the spending power of the club) so it is a different argument.

If it was something like “XXXX @ SJP” stadium it wouldn’t particularly bother me, but I like having the heritage of the SJP name so wouldn’t want to lose it.
But would it actually be about the spending power of the club? That'll be the sales pitch for sure, but the entire investment was in the name of promoting Saudi interests, and slapping Aramco or whatever on an internationally televised stadium was surely always part of the plan.
I’m sure it may have been, but if they want to be successful (which they will as it promotes Saudi Arabia further) then they need to pump a s*** load of money in, and they can only do that in line with FFP and via new and more lucrative sponsorship / naming deals. Fans aren’t always going to be privy to plans from day one, and why would they be. Any organisation releases information they want to when they want to and keeps things back, football clubs will be the same.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Remember Colo » Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:58 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:27 pm
Personally I think there is a difference between why Ashley did it (100% personal gain and nothing else) and if the current owners did it (to be able to increase the spending power of the club) so it is a different argument.

If it was something like “XXXX @ SJP” stadium it wouldn’t particularly bother me, but I like having the heritage of the SJP name so wouldn’t want to lose it.
But would it actually be about the spending power of the club? That'll be the sales pitch for sure, but the entire investment was in the name of promoting Saudi interests, and slapping Aramco or whatever on an internationally televised stadium was surely always part of the plan.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by bodacious benny » Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:27 pm

Personally I think there is a difference between why Ashley did it (100% personal gain and nothing else) and if the current owners did it (to be able to increase the spending power of the club) so it is a different argument.

If it was something like “XXXX @ SJP” stadium it wouldn’t particularly bother me, but I like having the heritage of the SJP name so wouldn’t want to lose it.

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Colly » Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm

Blue & Maroon wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:42 am
What is gripping me is the hypocrisy of some of our fans saying its fine because they are asking. I'd eat my hat of they pay any attention to what fans say unless there is a major major kick off which there wont be because they've headed it off by pretending they are interested in what fans think
I'm really curious as to what this will entail. Will they ask the Supporters Trust (95%+ in favour of the takeover), or will they actually be contacting matchgoing fans?

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by gola » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:56 am

not arsed tbh

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Blue & Maroon » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:42 am

Would I prefer it didnt happen ? Yes.

Am I that arsed? No. Was always SJP to me when Ashley renamed it and will be if the new owners do.

What is gripping me is the hypocrisy of some of our fans saying its fine because they are asking. I'd eat my hat of they pay any attention to what fans say unless there is a major major kick off which there wont be because they've headed it off by pretending they are interested in what fans think

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by overseasTOON » Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:52 am

It'll always be St James' Park to me because I'm an old bugger and I 100% get why they've an inkling to change it as it's a quick and effective way to add £25 million per annum to the bottom line with very little cost to implement.

Would I be happy? Not really.
Will it make a difference to my support? Not really.

So for a little animosity which could likely be offset as long as it's invested well, it's a no brainer to proceed

Re: Re-naming of St James' Park

by Sir Bobby » Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:11 am

I was randomly thinking about this the other day and I had a thought; could they buy the naming rights for abroad only? I imagine most local fans don’t care if SJP was called Aramco Stadium when talked about abroad (if the money was right), since it would almost never be noted here. Obviously international fans might be annoyed but, given we’re not an absolutely massive club, that’s a relatively small number of fans that would be annoyed, which, given the potential benefits, might be acceptable for the fan base as a whole.

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