Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

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Expand view Topic review: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Colly » Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:59 pm

ALF wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:38 pm
lassassinblanc wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:20 pm

Penalties are 0.75 xg so that's 1.4 already, an open goal in centre of pitch which we conceded two are around 0.95 so that's at least 3xg right there. As you say the rest of the shots would accumulated come to around 3/4
It's a concern definitely but it wasn't the battering it looked like. They couldn't break us down for the majority of the game, it was a good away performance, we even offered a threat on the break and from set pieces. Then Burn went missing and they scored 3 goals.

Still want to see if Jota was onside before he dived. He was 10 yards past our CB's and it was never even mentioned.
Behind them and in his own half anyway, awful defending between the two of them.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Sanchino » Tue Jan 02, 2024 3:59 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:16 am
After sleeping on it...

Burn really shouldn't be playing, he said himself he came back weeks before he was ready and by Christ it doesn't half seem that way. He had the top speed of an asthmatic walrus before breaking a bone in his back, he's even slower now. I do sympathise with the injuries we've had forcing Howe's hand at times, but there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have put krafth at RB and Tino at LB, or even leave Tino at RB and play Hall at LB. Trent/Salah down the right were always going to murder Burn.

Bruno is a liability playing deep, takes far too many risks and invites pressure. He's also clearly lost the plot and diving into wreckless challenges out of frustration. He's a walking red card at the moment, and isn't far from a 2 game ban for yellow card (8) accumulation.

Almiron is playing like a player who knows he has almost no competition for his place, even a half fit Gordon chalked up another assist tonight whilst Miggy just does the same thing over and over. It's Gordon 11 - 4 Almiron for attacking returns this season in the league, and I'd guess minutes played is similar. Not good enough.

Isak does look the real deal, notched a goal even on a quiet night with limited opportunities. If he was in the Liverpool team tonight over Nunez then he'd have had a hattrick at minimum.

Dubravka did well, made a lot of saves (a lot straight at him but still saves) and a strong save from Salah's first penalty. The second penalty should never have been given and Jota should get a retrospective ban for cheating (but won't). Pope is clearly a better keeper', but the 4 goals conceded weren't a reflection on Dubravka tonight.

Liverpool employed their usual crying tactics at every opportunity but should have stuck at least 6 past us.

It will get worse (Man C and Villa next) before it gets better, but I think when we get those out of the way then we'll pick up points again. Luton, Bournemouth and Wolves are our next three home games after City, all are doing relatively well but all are winnable games.
Well said. Couldn't have said it better. <applause>

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by ALF » Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:38 pm

lassassinblanc wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:20 pm
ALF wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:45 am


This is a tiny bit misleading though. 2 penalties (that weren't penalties) and the Trent rebound from 6 yards will account for over 2 xG. 2 of the goals scored were literally open goals from inside 6 yards so will likely have been 0.98 xG or so. Gakpo was 6 yards out with a keeper and nothing else to beat so was probably very high as well although not quite a certainty.

I know it's terrible defending for the goals, but most of the Dubravka saves were pretty comfortable. Good positioning sure, but a lot were straight at him. They fired in a lot of pot shots that had minimal chance of going in, 20 shots with an xG of 0.1 gives you 2 xG.
Penalties are 0.75 xg so that's 1.4 already, an open goal in centre of pitch which we conceded two are around 0.95 so that's at least 3xg right there. As you say the rest of the shots would accumulated come to around 3/4
It's a concern definitely but it wasn't the battering it looked like. They couldn't break us down for the majority of the game, it was a good away performance, we even offered a threat on the break and from set pieces. Then Burn went missing and they scored 3 goals.

Still want to see if Jota was onside before he dived. He was 10 yards past our CB's and it was never even mentioned.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by lassassinblanc » Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:20 pm

ALF wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:45 am
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:58 pm
7.2 xG for Liverpool shows that this wasn’t a contest in any way, shape or form.
This is a tiny bit misleading though. 2 penalties (that weren't penalties) and the Trent rebound from 6 yards will account for over 2 xG. 2 of the goals scored were literally open goals from inside 6 yards so will likely have been 0.98 xG or so. Gakpo was 6 yards out with a keeper and nothing else to beat so was probably very high as well although not quite a certainty.

I know it's terrible defending for the goals, but most of the Dubravka saves were pretty comfortable. Good positioning sure, but a lot were straight at him. They fired in a lot of pot shots that had minimal chance of going in, 20 shots with an xG of 0.1 gives you 2 xG.
Penalties are 0.75 xg so that's 1.4 already, an open goal in centre of pitch which we conceded two are around 0.95 so that's at least 3xg right there. As you say the rest of the shots would accumulated come to around 3/4

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by ALF » Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:58 am

6 assists in 164 games now for Almiron.

For context:
Maxi got 5 last season and he only started 12 matches.
Gordon has 5 this season.
Murphy has 5 across this season and last (15 starts)
Barnes has 1 this season which is the same as Almiron.
Longstaff has 6 across this season and last.
Bruno has 7 across this season and last.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by ALF » Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:45 am

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:58 pm
7.2 xG for Liverpool shows that this wasn’t a contest in any way, shape or form.
This is a tiny bit misleading though. 2 penalties (that weren't penalties) and the Trent rebound from 6 yards will account for over 2 xG. 2 of the goals scored were literally open goals from inside 6 yards so will likely have been 0.98 xG or so. Gakpo was 6 yards out with a keeper and nothing else to beat so was probably very high as well although not quite a certainty.

I know it's terrible defending for the goals, but most of the Dubravka saves were pretty comfortable. Good positioning sure, but a lot were straight at him. They fired in a lot of pot shots that had minimal chance of going in, 20 shots with an xG of 0.1 gives you 2 xG.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by lassassinblanc » Tue Jan 02, 2024 11:28 am

Good summary Benny.

Agreed with everything.

Left back definitely needs an upgrade , I did hear rumours of another young right back being considered for January but can't remember who, maybe plan to move Tino over there permanently.

Rw needs an upgrade but tbh that can probably wait until the summer as hopefully one of Barnes/Murphy will be back soon.(Though I have heard Brahim Diaz on loan rumours)

Kalvin Philips seems the most likely addition during this window, with Guirassy also thought to be on the list.

In terms of goalkeepers we have been scouting Georgi Marmadashvili of Valencia this season but again that will be a summer move if we do take it further, I'd expect Karius and Dubravka to leave in the summer

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by bodacious benny » Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:16 am

After sleeping on it...

Burn really shouldn't be playing, he said himself he came back weeks before he was ready and by Christ it doesn't half seem that way. He had the top speed of an asthmatic walrus before breaking a bone in his back, he's even slower now. I do sympathise with the injuries we've had forcing Howe's hand at times, but there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't have put krafth at RB and Tino at LB, or even leave Tino at RB and play Hall at LB. Trent/Salah down the right were always going to murder Burn.

Bruno is a liability playing deep, takes far too many risks and invites pressure. He's also clearly lost the plot and diving into wreckless challenges out of frustration. He's a walking red card at the moment, and isn't far from a 2 game ban for yellow card (8) accumulation.

Almiron is playing like a player who knows he has almost no competition for his place, even a half fit Gordon chalked up another assist tonight whilst Miggy just does the same thing over and over. It's Gordon 11 - 4 Almiron for attacking returns this season in the league, and I'd guess minutes played is similar. Not good enough.

Isak does look the real deal, notched a goal even on a quiet night with limited opportunities. If he was in the Liverpool team tonight over Nunez then he'd have had a hattrick at minimum.

Dubravka did well, made a lot of saves (a lot straight at him but still saves) and a strong save from Salah's first penalty. The second penalty should never have been given and Jota should get a retrospective ban for cheating (but won't). Pope is clearly a better keeper', but the 4 goals conceded weren't a reflection on Dubravka tonight.

Liverpool employed their usual crying tactics at every opportunity but should have stuck at least 6 past us.

It will get worse (Man C and Villa next) before it gets better, but I think when we get those out of the way then we'll pick up points again. Luton, Bournemouth and Wolves are our next three home games after City, all are doing relatively well but all are winnable games.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Sanchino » Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:53 pm

Chappy wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:59 pm
I geniunely don't see where we get our next win from
Luton at home is our best bet (if we're talking about the league). Sunderland away looks like a very tricky game now.. this would be my line-up..

Dubra
Trippier* Botman Schar Tino
Bruno Longstaff Joelinton
Isak Wilson* Gordon

*If not fit then Kraft or switch Tino RB and play Hall LB. No BURN PLEASE!
*If not fit then Isak in the middle with Gordon RW and Big Joe on the left with Miley in the middle.

Wasn't expecting anything against a high-quality Liverpool side right now, look at the players they brought on compared to us there squad depth is ridiculous.. to get to that level it's going to take us a good 3-5 years. Our aim right now should be to try end top 8 and even Conference Europa would be OK as we may win that trophy and we can give it a good go next year with a rejuvenated fresh squad and couple key signings for the top four. IF we lose against Sunderland then Howe will be under big pressure and a lot of fans will be calling for his head but his job should be safe at least till summer, he deserves that for overachieving last year. Nobody should be calling for his head, it'll be crazy to think we can get someone better mid-way through this season. Let's hope we beat the scum and build our confidence and momentum back. <ok>

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Chappy » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:59 pm

I geniunely don't see where we get our next win from

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by jpg » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:35 pm

Colly wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:31 pm
Just watching the postmatch, wish Longstaff had at least appealled for that pen. Don't think it is but at least it puts it in the refs head, certainly more of a pen than Jotas.
Agree. Reminded me of Mount’s vs France at the WC.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by jpg » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:34 pm

Slim999 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:54 pm
jpg wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:51 pm


I was convinced before this game Sunderland would turn us over based on our horrendous away form. We’ve been well beaten today but we’re much improved from recent performances. Doesn’t look like any additional injuries so let’s hope.
Losing to Sunderland could be fatal
Would be awful, and I think he’d fall out of favour with a lot of fans but think his job is still very safe at least until the end of the season.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Colly » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:31 pm

Just watching the postmatch, wish Longstaff had at least appealled for that pen. Don't think it is but at least it puts it in the refs head, certainly more of a pen than Jotas.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by jpg » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:30 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:22 pm
jpg wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:19 pm


We’re on a poor run of form and don’t really have a plan B. Getting players returning from injury will rejuvenate the squad.
Wasn't that what people said a few weeks ago when we had Longstaff, Wilson, Burn coming back? Now we have Botman back too and nothing has gotten any better in terms of on field performance. A lack of a plan B is a problem, but at the moment I'm more worried by a lack of a plan A.
Just don’t think it can be overlooked having so many players out and how that has affected our approach to games. Read today we had to skip certain elements of training in the build up to games to avoid risk of further injuries. Our plan A was/is intensity and pressing but pretty clear that can’t be our approach right now.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Colly » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:27 pm

We got Longstaff and Burn back but lost Wilson and Trippier (arguably we lost Trippier 3 weeks ago while he was still playing...). It's still a threadbare squad, and while they bring on Jota, Gakpo and a World Cup winner we bring on Lascelles, Almiron and Hall.

We've been very poor, and Man City next isn't ideal to turn that around, but we were always going to hit a run of bad form eventually. We're still ahead of Chelsea, just behind Man Utd in 7th, the league can still be rescued. Just a bit gutted about the two cup exits, we clearly twisted at 1-1 v Milan where Europa would have been fine, but the lack of Europe might help us in the long run.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Don Sholeone » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:22 pm

jpg wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:19 pm
Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:56 pm
To be honest we can bleat on about over achieving, CL was ahead of schedule etc, none of that changes the fact we have been absolutely rancid to watch on the pitch for pretty much 2 months now.
The team is struggling to do the basics every single game. Like I've previously mentioned in this thread, what is our current identity on the pitch? There is no defensive structure, no ideas in the final 3rd, midfield is so unorganised and all over the place, nobody can play a simple pass. How long do we let this go on for until we finally stop making excuses for completely inexcusable performances?
We’re on a poor run of form and don’t really have a plan B. Getting players returning from injury will rejuvenate the squad.
Wasn't that what people said a few weeks ago when we had Longstaff, Wilson, Burn coming back? Now we have Botman back too and nothing has gotten any better in terms of on field performance. A lack of a plan B is a problem, but at the moment I'm more worried by a lack of a plan A.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by jpg » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:19 pm

Don Sholeone wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:56 pm
To be honest we can bleat on about over achieving, CL was ahead of schedule etc, none of that changes the fact we have been absolutely rancid to watch on the pitch for pretty much 2 months now.
The team is struggling to do the basics every single game. Like I've previously mentioned in this thread, what is our current identity on the pitch? There is no defensive structure, no ideas in the final 3rd, midfield is so unorganised and all over the place, nobody can play a simple pass. How long do we let this go on for until we finally stop making excuses for completely inexcusable performances?
We’re on a poor run of form and don’t really have a plan B. Getting players returning from injury will rejuvenate the squad.

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by bodacious benny » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:03 pm

Colly wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:59 pm
Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:58 pm
7.2 xG for Liverpool shows that this wasn’t a contest in any way, shape or form.
I agree that they were the better team by far, but 3-2 on 80 minutes says otherwise for me. That penalty killed it.
At no point today did I think we’d get anything, whether it was 0-0, 1-1 or 3-2 so for me it wasn’t a contest. We got battered but they couldn’t finish (or defend very well).

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Chappy » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:03 pm

Just highlights how much we massively overachieved last season...

Re: Matchday thread - Toon v 'Pool

by Don Sholeone » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:02 pm

Bodacious Benny wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:58 pm
7.2 xG for Liverpool shows that this wasn’t a contest in any way, shape or form.
We have had a few around 4+ lately. This isn't acceptable, it's borderline Bruce levels.

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