General Election 2017

[Donkey Toon]

Yeah Labour rallied well, fought a good campaign and increased their seats tally. All bodes well for 2022.

But they came second in what is effectively a two horse race. We're not talking the Greens or Lib Dems here who just hope for a good campaign and to win a few more seats. If labour take anything other than winning the election as a victory then the word victory has lost its meaning to them and to anybody that buys that idea.

And personally I can't understand the Corbyn love-in based off this result. With a decent leader labour should have won this election comfortably. I think his ambivalent stance on brexit cost them. There will have been voters desperate to vote for anybody other than the Tories who will have avoided labour because Corbyn was so uninterested in the brexit referendum that he couldn't even rouse himself to clearly state his opinion on it, let alone campaign on it with any sincerity. He himself referred to it as a "6 out of 10 issue". To brexit single issue voters who consider the requirement to honour the referendum result and to negotiate the best deal (arguably the biggest challenge for a UK PM since the Falklands) as the most important voting decision, then the idea of electing a PM whose views were so weak and vague would be a non-starter. In my opinion Corbyn quite possibly made a Labour election victory impossible on that issue alone.

But this was a Labour party that had a 0% chance of ever winning. The Tories came first in a one horse race. Just. Any other result would have been Hilary Clinton or Spurs 2015/16 levels of failure.

No leader in history could have won that for Labour, May concentrated on Brexit with her campaign and it cost her massively. Corbyn concentrated on the issues at home and it won him voters from all over the country. Brexit is happening, I think anyone who saw anything of May and Corbyn would realise that Corbyn is the only one of those that could negotiate a good deal for the country.

I think the reason the Tories retained a number of safe seats is because of habitual voters. My dad was the perfect example of one. He's watched literally none of this campaign from either side. He's read up absolutely nothing on it. But our local Tory MP has done alright and it's always been a Tory area so he continues to vote Tory. There is no big picture voting from a lot of people.

A Labour victory was impossible from the get go, Corbyn gave them a glimmer of hope. The fact that people could look at this as a failure speaks volumes of just how successful his campaign was that it got people thinking they could have done better.

Sorry Alf but if you're going to make statements like the ones in bold then i'm not going to waste my time debating the issue. They are so far from reality I don't even know where to start.

[skalpel]

No leader in history could have won that for Labour, May concentrated on Brexit with her campaign and it cost her massively. Corbyn concentrated on the issues at home and it won him voters from all over the country. Brexit is happening, I think anyone who saw anything of May and Corbyn would realise that Corbyn is the only one of those that could negotiate a good deal for the country.

The best thing about Labour's campaign was that it contrasted May's solipsism with teamwork. May said "It's a question of who do you want negotiating Brexit: Me or Corbyn?" and Corbyn ignored her and said, "Keir Starmer is one of the best lawyers in the country and will be in control of a Labour government's Brexit negotiations." Banged.

[ALF]

But this was a Labour party that had a 0% chance of ever winning. The Tories came first in a one horse race. Just. Any other result would have been Hilary Clinton or Spurs 2015/16 levels of failure.

No leader in history could have won that for Labour, May concentrated on Brexit with her campaign and it cost her massively. Corbyn concentrated on the issues at home and it won him voters from all over the country. Brexit is happening, I think anyone who saw anything of May and Corbyn would realise that Corbyn is the only one of those that could negotiate a good deal for the country.

I think the reason the Tories retained a number of safe seats is because of habitual voters. My dad was the perfect example of one. He's watched literally none of this campaign from either side. He's read up absolutely nothing on it. But our local Tory MP has done alright and it's always been a Tory area so he continues to vote Tory. There is no big picture voting from a lot of people.

A Labour victory was impossible from the get go, Corbyn gave them a glimmer of hope. The fact that people could look at this as a failure speaks volumes of just how successful his campaign was that it got people thinking they could have done better.

Sorry Alf but if you're going to make statements like the ones in bold then i'm not going to waste my time debating the issue. They are so far from reality I don't even know where to start.

If I was the only one saying Labour were never winning I'd understand that, but it's a pretty common view

I get the dispute over the May/Corbyn/Brexit one. That's a bit much, but I think he's proven himself to be closer to the 'Strong and Stable' tagline of May than she has. She looks so uncomfortable when she doesn't like a question or statement, there's no argument to it. She just laughs it off then reels off a rehearsed statement that sometimes isn't even relevant to the question. I for one can't say I'd be at all confident in her negotiating a good deal, especially if she hears something she doesn't agree with. I think Corbyn has done brilliantly to show his strength over the past year or so. He's been attacked regularly and he's stood strong and stuck to the policies he believes in.

[Micky Quim]

A night that showed that the leaders of our two biggest parties arent fit to govern us. May humiliated but Corbyn has still ultimately failed.

Almost every single pundit is saying this is a victory for Labour

But lost by nearly 1m votes

[Micky Quim]

Rubbish. Corbyn gained 3.5million Labour voters from the last election. The 18-24 turnout was over 70% and heavily in favour of Labour. The Tories don't have a majority and if May was at all sane or respectable she'd resign. The 50-100 majority she was expecting when she called the election has been wiped out. When Corbyn took over he was one of the most unpopular figures in politics, he's completely changed that in under 2 years.

Rubbish. The Tories increased their vote and lost a net 12 seats which is hardly a collapse or major rejection, especially when you consider it was a back to back election. It is always harder to win as standing government as they have current policies and results to defend, whereas the other parties can criticise at will and make fanciful promises. Talk is cheap after all. It is rare for a standing party to increase its number of seats for that reason.

The country was ripe for change and May f***ed up in calling the election. May has no charisma, the Tory manifesto was a shambles as was its campaign, Labour's manifesto was popularist and well presented, austerity had alienated many and recent security failings had damaged both the Tories and May on that issue. And yet Labour couldn't oust them.

If you think that is a victory then you set the winning bar very low indeed.

Very well put DT

[daib0]

I'm sorry, but I just see a totally divided country - not only right and left wing, not the nationalism of countries/regions with 'national' unity, not only the Brexit vote, so marginal as to hardly have validity, but the entire political system.... no proportional representation in any form, any largest-voted party will do any dirty work just to gain/maintain power. Where did the real political convictions go??!

[Mifune]

It really shows the state of British politics that the tories have made two huge f*** ups in the last 12 months that could have very real damaging consequences to the public, and yet they are still in power...

I saw a map the other day of all the torie constiancies and it was almost all over the UK. I think we are naturally just a Conservative nation .

That and people just don't vote...

[Hjl]

My mother has been a staunch tory voter for her entire life. she abstained this election because she didn't feel that there was anyone that deserved her vote. She said that if Corbyn hadnt been so far left wing that she would have voted labor for the first time ever.

Corbyn didnt win because he didnt have enough support, even with May having a complete train wreck of a campaign.

[Blue & Maroon]

It really shows the state of British politics that the tories have made two huge f*** ups in the last 12 months that could have very real damaging consequences to the public, and yet they are still in power...

I saw a map the other day of all the torie constiancies and it was almost all over the UK. I think we are naturally just a Conservative nation .

That and people just don't vote...

It's the rejection of the right and left without anyone voting for the centre

If everyone could have just been sensible and vote Lib Dem

[daib0]

Letter from one of the admins on 'RR' to his newly elected Conservative MP for the Newbury constituency, worth reproducing I feel:


"Hello,

Congratulations on your re-election as the MP for the Newbury constituency. While I didn't personally vote for you, I feel that the most important thing now is that we focus on matters that will affect our constituency and the country.

The reason why I'm contacting you is that I would like to express my concerns about the Conservative Party's decision to seek a confidence and supply agreement with the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP).

First of all, I would like to note that I have no concerns about the legitimacy of the Conservative Party to re-enter government with the support of another party. I recognise that the Prime Minister is chosen by the MPs that were elected to Parliament and that a Prime Minister requires the support of the majority of the House of Commons to govern the country. I, additionally, recognise that, once the Speaker, Deputy Speakers and members from Sinn Fein are excluded, the Conservatives and the DUP hold a majority of Parliamentary seats.

My main concerns, in this case, drive from the policies of the DUP, the peace process in Northern Ireland and the DUP's links with paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland.

The DUP have a number of policies that would be considered by most people in the United Kingdom as regressive and divisive. The party has blocked the legalisation of equal marriage in the Northern Ireland Assembly, using the petition of concern mechanism - which was designed to prevent policies that would be damaging to one community in Northern Ireland from being passed by the Assembly, should 30 MLAs from either community ('Unionist' or 'Nationalist') oppose it. The DUP have used this mechanism unilaterally to prevent equality in Northern Ireland for a substantial minority of people who live in the province. They've also prevented abortion laws from extending to the province, through this mechanism. The abuse of the petition of concern, on issues that would give greater equality to the people of Northern Ireland, suggests that they're only a party that cares about their own views, rather than the views of the people they represent. Also, the DUP's policies appear to stem from a brand of ethnic nationalism, which I would hope the Conservative Party opposes.

Additionally, I fear that this agreement between the parties could undermine, or potentially breach, the Good Friday Agreement. It's my understanding that the United Kingdom, and Irish, government shouldn't show favourably towards a community in Northern Ireland, as it could harm the peace process in the province. Given that the DUP framed this election as a referendum on Northern Ireland's place in the United Kingdom, I feel that it would be unwise of the Conservative Party to give any leverage to the DUP in the coming Parliament. The matter is made worse by the increasing likelihood that Northern Ireland will be returning to direct rule due to the failure of the DUP and Sinn Fein to come to a power-sharing agreement in the province. If the DUP's support is required for the Conservatives to remain in power at Westminster, I feel that it will only worsen the sentiments of the republicans in Northern Ireland - as this could lead to what would effectively be DUP direct rule, when they only received a single seat more than Sinn Fein in the Northern Irish election in March - which was held under the Single Transferable Vote system. Given that the constituency results in Northern Ireland in this election appear to mirror the constituency results in the Assembly election, in terms of largest party, it's likely that the political situation in the province hasn't changed much since March.

On top of this, the DUP have links with the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Red Hand Commando (RHC). The aforementioned organisations are proscribed groups under the Terrorism Act 2000. I know that the Conservative campaign mentioned the alleged links between Jeremy Corbyn, Gerry Adams and the IRA as a reason not to support the Labour Party. I feel that it would be deplorable for the Conservatives to enter into an agreement with a party that is supported by terrorist organisations themselves, especially after the party made comments regarding Corbyn and the IRA a major campaigning point in this election.

I, personally, feel that this deal is only to allow for Theresa May to push through a deal with the European Union without input from the other parties in the House of Commons. It's concerning that, despite 57% of votes in the election going to parties other that the Conservatives and the DUP, the leadership of the Conservatives are attempting to by-pass the opposition in Parliament to achieve that deal with the EU that they want - rather than a deal that the country, as a whole, wants.

To summarise, I feel that you should oppose the Conservative plan to enter into an agreement with the DUP, as the party pursues regressive policies in Northern Ireland, has links with terrorist organisations and the agreement between the parties could undermine the Good Friday Agreement.

Best regards,"

[ALF]

[tweet][/tweet]

[daib0]

But it's going to get even messier - this from the Telegraph, hardly a paper to do cheap scaremongering:


The Telegraph

Ruth Davidson planning Scottish Tory breakaway as she challenges Theresa May's Brexit plan

Ruth Davidson is to defy Theresa May’s plans for a hard Brexit and tear her Scottish party away from English control after the UK Tories’ disastrous General Election result.

Amid a growing clamour among senior Tories in London for Ms Davidson to be given a top position in the UK party, her aides are working on a deal that would see the Scottish party break away to form a separate organisation.

[Hjl]

May needs to resign already and save her for permenantly scaring the Conservative party. It's a dark day for British politics when Corbin is the reasonable choice....

[bodacious benny]

May isn't going to last six months, and her decision to get into bed with those muppets from NI is frankly disgraceful.

[ALF]

May will be lucky to last this month. Every day there are more and more people in her own party going against her.

[Don Sholeone]

Surely May only has days left, she's clinging on by a hair on her arse, I can see a Labour minority being a real possibility now.

[Aldridge Prior]

May needs to resign already and save her for permenantly scaring the Conservative party. It's a dark day for British politics when Corbin is the reasonable choice....

Or maybe there's light at the end of the tunnel after almost four decades of being treat with utter contempt by our government, Blair's Labour included.

[Blue & Maroon]

Surely May only has days left, she's clinging on by a hair on her arse, I can see a Labour minority being a real possibility now.

Will collapse very quickly, there will be another election. Personally after a couple of days of thinking if I was The Tories I would let Labour try and form a government, watch it implode due to lack of numbers and consensus between the parties on the left and swoop in. Would be very damaging to watch the Queen refuse to give her speech in case it is rejected. Unfortunately it looks like May will scar the Conservatives for years, which is bad for everyone, we need at least two strong parties.

[PTAO?]

Surely May only has days left, she's clinging on by a hair on her arse, I can see a Labour minority being a real possibility now.

Will collapse very quickly, there will be another election. Personally after a couple of days of thinking if I was The Tories I would let Labour try and form a government, watch it implode due to lack of numbers and consensus between the parties on the left and swoop in. Would be very damaging to watch the Queen refuse to give her speech in case it is rejected. Unfortunately it looks like May will scar the Conservatives for years, which is bad for everyone, we need at least two strong parties.

One would be nice.

[Aldridge Prior]

Will collapse very quickly, there will be another election. Personally after a couple of days of thinking if I was The Tories I would let Labour try and form a government, watch it implode due to lack of numbers and consensus between the parties on the left and swoop in. Would be very damaging to watch the Queen refuse to give her speech in case it is rejected. Unfortunately it looks like May will scar the Conservatives for years, which is bad for everyone, we need at least two strong parties.

One would be nice.

Aaaah, good old Mugabism