Catalan Uprising

[daib0]

My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.

Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.

What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".

Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.

So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.

Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:





Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality

David

[bodacious benny]

There's a lot of discontent around the world, a lot of societies in different countries are on a knife edge.

[Sir Bobby]

Those videos are awful. I noticed at the very end of the first video a police officer smashed a guy's phone for no reason - one could always claim that police violence is sometimes necessary to maintain law and order (clearly it's excessive here though) but that was simple destruction of property with no intent to keep the peace

[daib0]

looks like the two leaders of the Catalan regional government are opening up the doors to a possible declaration of outright independence second half of this coming week. The fact that they are not allowed to have a nationally agreed referendum makes them want to use this one, with all its shortcomings, as definitive.

It's not a case of Catalonia being rich and not wanting to help the poorer off regions, this has all to do with Madrid being the big boss and not listening to the Catalan voice during many a year. It's against the capital, but not against any Spanish region as such.

The Basque push has diminished somewhat but there is still a sizeable chunk of the population who are for the cause still which could/might easily reignite if they see a free and successful Catalonia. In fact, I live on the edge of the Basque region, in Navarre ... 

[lassassinblanc]

Absolutely horrible what happened. Democracy what does it mean.

This could well lead to another Civil War in Spain

[daib0]

Excuse the what you might see as my obsession on this. I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife Rosa is Catalan...and got plenty of Catalan friends

[Micky Quim]

Those videos are horrendous. Never seen Police brutality like that before. Shocking

[Blue & Maroon]

How to fail at stopping an independence movement 101. Spanish government has essentially supplied the Catalan government with rocket fuel.

[daib0]

by the way, Pique booed fiercely at Spain's training camp. He was in tears afterwards...

[daib0]

BBC News

Catalonia independence: Puigdemont 'will not accept' Rajoy plan

Starts: Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says Catalonia will not accept Madrid's plan to impose direct rule on the region. He described it as the worst attack on Catalonia's institutions since General Franco's 1939-1975 dictatorship, under which regional autonomy was dissolved. Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy's plans include the removal of Catalonia's leaders and curbs on its parliament.

Complete article:

[bodacious benny]

It's quite good that we're not the only European country f***ing things up.

[Aldridge Prior]

It's quite good that we're not the only European country f***ing things up.

The scary thing is that this kind of widespread discontent is exactly what acted as a catalyst to both world wars.

There's so much awful s*** going on all over the world right now it's almost like something's gotta give.

[bodacious benny]

It's quite good that we're not the only European country f***ing things up.

The scary thing is that this kind of widespread discontent is exactly what acted as a catalyst to both world wars.

There's so much awful s*** going on all over the world right now it's almost like something's gotta give.

Oh yeah, totally feels like a lot of societies around the world are at tipping point. Something's going to give sooner or later.

[skalpel]

Most periods of reshuffle at the top end of power have been ugly all round and then escalated to conflict at the top until a relative peace settles under a new world order. (Seven Years War, Revolutions & Napoleonic Wars followed by Pax Britannica, then the First and Second World Wars followed by Pax Americana etc.) So far, at least, nothing on such an explosive scale has happened, but the world is such an enormously different place now that it's hard to say whether that would be even how it would play out. I suppose it's arguable that we've entered a long period of constant warfare around the globe which won't have a conclusion in the same way as war once did. Maybe that's what world war is now, I dunno.

[Blue & Maroon]

It always used to comfort me to think that we are completely different to the societies of 100-150 years ago and couldn't possibly fall into the same catastrophes they did...

Then I remember that they always thought the concert of Europe would hold, The Franco Prussian war/American civil war/Ruso-Japanese wars were humanitarian disasters never to be repeated and they thought they were civilised

We are different but never far from disaster.

[Sir Bobby]

It always used to comfort me to think that we are completely different to the societies of 100-150 years ago and couldn't possibly fall into the same catastrophes they did...

Then I remember that they always thought the concert of Europe would hold, The Franco Prussian war/American civil war/Ruso-Japanese wars were humanitarian disasters never to be repeated and they thought they were civilised

We are different but never far from disaster.

We’re basically all just glorified chimps that decided to cover our generals really. I don’t understand why people think we’ve evolved beyond certain things, like racism for example. Sure, our IQs have gone up but we’re still massively governed by biases and emotions.

[Hjl]

I'd like to hope that we don't descend into another world war. There are a lot of far wing politicians around at the moment in Europe and around the world, the difference now I suppose is that the vast majority of people are still moderate and have access to the Internet. It should be far harder to pull the wool over the eyes of such a huge population.

I have no interest in fighting if there is a war. I've said for a while that the solution to warfare is to make the leaders of the countries lead from the front. Amazing how unappealing a war is if you are the one who has to die in it.

[skalpel]

I'd like to hope that we don't descend into another world war. There are a lot of far wing politicians around at the moment in Europe and around the world, the difference now I suppose is that the vast majority of people are still moderate and have access to the Internet. It should be far harder to pull the wool over the eyes of such a huge population.

I have no interest in fighting if there is a war. I've said for a while that the solution to warfare is to make the leaders of the countries lead from the front. Amazing how unappealing a war is if you are the one who has to die in it.

If there's another world war, you won't have to do any fighting anyway. Just get a really good spade and lots of tinned food.

[Hjl]

I'd like to hope that we don't descend into another world war. There are a lot of far wing politicians around at the moment in Europe and around the world, the difference now I suppose is that the vast majority of people are still moderate and have access to the Internet. It should be far harder to pull the wool over the eyes of such a huge population.

I have no interest in fighting if there is a war. I've said for a while that the solution to warfare is to make the leaders of the countries lead from the front. Amazing how unappealing a war is if you are the one who has to die in it.

If there's another world war, you won't have to do any fighting anyway. Just get a really good spade and lots of tinned food.

Think I might move to Kenya

[skalpel]

If there's another world war, you won't have to do any fighting anyway. Just get a really good spade and lots of tinned food.

Think I might move to Kenya

I'll be in Shackleton's Hut, best wishes.