I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

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I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Goat » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:06 pm

I'll probably get flamed to death for this, but here we go.

I think some folk are getting a little too paranoid about the club at the moment, which obviously won't be helped by bad results.

If we take a step back, there's nothing to indicate that Carver is keeping the job other than some Twitter rumours, which as we all know, can't be trusted.

His win percentage is abysmal, he's nearly getting us relegated, and he's a definite downgrade on Pardew, so it's unlikely really. As I've said before, Hughton was sacked for Pardew because the board wanted a better manager with a better track record to take us forward, so there's an indication there that we do care about the quality of our manager. It also makes business sense to hire someone who will take us further up the table and grab £750,000 per position increase. The club would make far more money doing that than saving a few quid on a manager's wages, and it would considerably help to avoid the catastrophic financial impact of relegation.

For the financial situation, yes, we made a big profit, but the profit announced in March of this year is for the 2013-14 financial year. The only period after that financial year ended when the transfer window was open was last summer, when we spent £38million. We then sold players for around £18million, leaving a net spend of £20million. That seems remarkably close to the amount of profit we made in the financial year which was recently announced, doesn't it?

Since the club has already said that it much prefers to spend in the summer instead of the January window, there's nothing to take from the lack of expenditure in the January just gone. The real indicator here is what we're going to spend in summer, and how much profit the club has made in this current financial year which is about to end shortly. However, we won't get the figures on how much money we've made this year until next year around March 2016.

My point here is that, apart from Kinnear's reign, we have a track record of spending. We've spent almost £90million in the last 3 seasons. All that profit we made from the 13-14 financial year? It was actually spent on Perez (£1.6million), De Jong (£6million), Cabella (£12million), Riviere (£6.3million), Janmaat (£5million), Darlow (£3.5million) and Lascelles (£3.5million). That's almost £38million immediately spent after that financial year ended.

I'm not saying that we won't appoint Carver, or that we're guaranteed to spend money, but I honestly see no clear indicator of why we'd suddenly hire one of the worst managers we've ever had and fail to spend anything. It may happen, but it may not. There's certainly not enough to go on to just presume that everything will go wrong.

If the club keeps up the consistent pattern of spending, and including the new TV deal money, we could be in for a nice surprise. Everything people are talking about up until we see what actually happens is just pure speculation heightened by our dismal performances.

I'm saying all of this purely for the benefit of some of you, because some folk seem to be really stressing themselves out right now when it may not be warranted.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Micky Quim » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:45 am

I hope you are right <ok>

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by L8RS » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:35 am

Can you calm my fears that he'll still be here at all in August?

I'm going to pray to Jackie Milburn every day in hope of hiring Garde.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Colly » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:46 am

I agree with the whole of that, and it's fundamentally why I didn't boycott on Sunday. The club will spend as per usual, and fingers crossed with a manager suited to the DoF system we'll get the right players in the right positions playing to the right system, rather than the Pardew (or worse, Carver) style hoy everyone on and hope for the best.

This all collapses if Carver gets the job, but I genuinely can't see it happening.

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by seatonsluicetoon » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:45 am

Colly wrote:I agree with the whole of that, and it's fundamentally why I didn't boycott on Sunday. The club will spend as per usual, and fingers crossed with a manager suited to the DoF system we'll get the right players in the right positions playing to the right system, rather than the Pardew (or worse, Carver) style hoy everyone on and hope for the best.

This all collapses if Carver gets the job, but I genuinely can't see it happening.
I think it all collapses if Carver and his mates remain at the club in any capacity at all. We need a reinvented back room more than we need a revamped squad in my opinion.

Any new manager coming in needs to bring their coaching setup with them and if that is denied they won't take the job if they have any credibility but if they do we can expect more of exactly the same with different wrapping paper.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by LONDONTOON » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:03 am

What's our net spend under Ashley?

Surely has to be the lowest in the league,but if we appoint Carver this club is done

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Holystone... » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:23 am

I think we may have a knight in shining armour in the form of the new Sky/BT cash. Ashley will need to up his game as everyone will have cash to splash exposing his penny pinching business model of cheap managers, untried talent, selling best talent and producing next to no youth quality. As for Carver, if you bring in a new guy, why would you keep a loser as coach?
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Toondes » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:20 am

carver won't leave the club regardless who the manager / head coach is. A lot of our staff have very long contracts and fatty won't settle them early.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Goat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:58 am

I personally wonder if Carver's contract has been renegotiated or even replaced. After all, he's went from assistant manager to interim manager, and it would make sound business sense to create a new contract based on that.

Considering how much Carver would have always jumped at the opportunity of managing the club himself, he may well have accepted those conditions.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Yacob » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:52 pm

Goat wrote:I personally wonder if Carver's contract has been renegotiated or even replaced. After all, he's went from assistant manager to interim manager, and it would make sound business sense to create a new contract based on that.

Considering how much Carver would have always jumped at the opportunity of managing the club himself, he may well have accepted those conditions.
I think he has come out and said that he has a contract as head coach until the end of the season, then his assistant manager contract kicks back in. The McClaren/Carver duo is probably what we will get next season as I'd imagine McClaren would be open to keeping Carver on. I think the Carver keeping the job rumours have some foundation to them, but it's probably the second choice of the boards if Derby go up.

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Goat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:11 pm

Yacob wrote:
Goat wrote:I personally wonder if Carver's contract has been renegotiated or even replaced. After all, he's went from assistant manager to interim manager, and it would make sound business sense to create a new contract based on that.

Considering how much Carver would have always jumped at the opportunity of managing the club himself, he may well have accepted those conditions.
I think he has come out and said that he has a contract as head coach until the end of the season, then his assistant manager contract kicks back in. The McClaren/Carver duo is probably what we will get next season as I'd imagine McClaren would be open to keeping Carver on. I think the Carver keeping the job rumours have some foundation to them, but it's probably the second choice of the boards if Derby go up.
I'm not massively phased by Carver staying on as a coach to be honest. It might sound crazy, but at the end of the day, the new manager will apply his own ethos and expect Carver to follow it. He certainly won't be allowed to just do his own thing.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Colly » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:18 pm

I've no real problem with Carver remaining our new Terry Mac and putting the cones out.

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Yacob » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:07 pm

Goat wrote:
Yacob wrote: I think he has come out and said that he has a contract as head coach until the end of the season, then his assistant manager contract kicks back in. The McClaren/Carver duo is probably what we will get next season as I'd imagine McClaren would be open to keeping Carver on. I think the Carver keeping the job rumours have some foundation to them, but it's probably the second choice of the boards if Derby go up.
I'm not massively phased by Carver staying on as a coach to be honest. It might sound crazy, but at the end of the day, the new manager will apply his own ethos and expect Carver to follow it. He certainly won't be allowed to just do his own thing.
I'm not against keeping him and Stone. I'd think that Woodman will be off to Palace. Even if we get a new manager, it's clear that we need some more coaches as well as the ones we currently have.

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Jonas » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:23 pm

We 100% need a new goalkeeping coach, someone who can actually get the best out of our very talented goalkeeper who is playing shocking at the moment

If McClaren came, maybe he'd bring Eric Steele with him, who is a Geordie!

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Wedge Head Tiote » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:16 pm

My perspective on the current situation of six losses in a row is in our six game losing streak the teams we have lost to were:
Spurs (h)
Liverpool (a)
Sunderland (a)
Arsenal (h)
Everton (a)
Man Utd (h)
Whereas Pardew's was:
Everton (h)
Southampton (a)
Man Utd (h)
Stoke (a)
Swansea (h)
Arsenal (a)
This also included 3 losses of 3 or more goals, whereas we've only been truly embarrassed once under Carver.
We could only realistically expect points out of 2 games under Carver compared with 4 games under Pardew. Not that this is in any way a defence of the awful team selection under Carver, more a general rant about the smug pricks who say things like "bet you wish you still had Pardew."

Also I realise this doesn't fit in with the rest of the thread but f*** it.

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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Holystone... » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:37 pm

Colly wrote:I've no real problem with Carver remaining our new Terry Mac and putting the cones out.
..
That's Carver's level so why the f*** give him the responsibility of EPL survival??? <yikes>
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Toondes » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:06 pm

I would like to see how Carver would do with a fully fit squad.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Goat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:16 pm

Toondes wrote:I would like to see how Carver would do with a fully fit squad.
s***.

People are acting like there's some sort of massive injury crisis. There's really not. He's been able to field at least one senior player in every position and fill up most of the bench with senior players too. It's not like half the team are from the youth squad.

Losing a few players does not and should not make you go from a mid-top level team to relegation candidates losing 6 games in a row.

You just need to look at the team play to see the problems. Completely lacking in confidence, unorganised and a lack of tactics and team play. A fully fit squad won't make much of a difference to that at all.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Toondes » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:04 pm

Yeah I'm not excusing him. I'm just saying I'd like to see how he would do with a full compliment to choose from. It might of been so different if he had started with a few wins. Not that I ever wanted him to get the job , but it would of been nice to win a few games what he was in charge in an interim capacity.
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Re: I think we need some perspective on the club's situation

Post by Goat » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:33 pm

Toondes wrote:Yeah I'm not excusing him. I'm just saying I'd like to see how he would do with a full compliment to choose from. It might of been so different if he had started with a few wins. Not that I ever wanted him to get the job , but it would of been nice to win a few games what he was in charge in an interim capacity.
I'd be more sympathetic to him if he was just performing below average, because then some of the injuries and Cisse's suspension are fair excuses.

However, he's absolutely tanked. 6 losses in a row, 1 win in our last 10 games and a 12% win record. There's no excuse for that other than the man himself.
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