Toon Takeover Thread - Chopra should be champing at the bit

[Don Sholeone]

Hell someone literally used the term Chelski in this thread and Abramovic has been here nearly 20 years, safe to say ownership like that defines the identity of the club.

To be fair that's used as a disparaging remark from non chelsea fans, I dont think serious Chelsea fans identify as "Chelski" as much as Liverpool fans wont identify as Li-VAR-pool.

[TJR]

Hasn’t done Man City any harm.

Yep.

Or Sheffield United who already have Saudi ownership not to mention Wolves owned by the Chinese

[Toondes]

The issue that keeps coming into my head and is really bugging me is this nagging conclusion. Apologies in advance if it offends anybody.

Suppose instead of the Saudi Royal Family the proposed takeover was by an equally repulsive dictator from some small Middle-Eastern, African or Latin American nation. Where they had also plundered the wealth of the country and then raised the funds to make an equal purchasing bid, but with the less attractive prospect of transfer funds and cash injections roughly comparable to those Ashley has put in. Would all the supporters of the Saudi bid be going through the same mental gymnastics to come up with reasons why they are justified in being okay with it. Or, as I suspect, would the reaction be "**** right off, why would we want an even scummier owner with no more cash to spend than Ashley!"

So I keep coming back to the conclusion that there are fans who are willing to discard their natural moral inclination to oppose this deal because the prospects of money and/or success have overridden the "angels of their better nature", to coin a phrase.

I'm not going to lie I am really disappointed and disillusioned at the prospect that this is truly the case.

We are football fans, football is an escape for many people and personally I dont like to mix the politics and questions of morality with my biggest joy in life. All I'm concerned with in supporting my football team is that it moves forward as a football club and increases my enjoyment of the sport, the moment I start being concerned with morality and politics in my one escape is the moment I'll lose all enjoyment from watching us.

To answer the question yes I'd be against someone with the same controversies as SA who was on the same level as Ashley because I want my football team to progress, that's what I care about when supporting my football team.

Away from football and talking politically and morally, of course i want the people of Saudi Arabia to have the same enjoyment and freedom i do, I think it's perfectly acceptable that you can have both these things go hand in hand.

Well put.

[Blue & Maroon]

Hasn’t done Man City any harm.

Yep.

Or Sheffield United who already have Saudi ownership not to mention Wolves owned by the Chinese

This is just proving the points already made my those skeptical about Saudi ownership.

[Blue & Maroon]

We are football fans, football is an escape for many people and personally I dont like to mix the politics and questions of morality with my biggest joy in life. All I'm concerned with in supporting my football team is that it moves forward as a football club and increases my enjoyment of the sport, the moment I start being concerned with morality and politics in my one escape is the moment I'll lose all enjoyment from watching us.

To answer the question yes I'd be against someone with the same controversies as SA who was on the same level as Ashley because I want my football team to progress, that's what I care about when supporting my football team.

Away from football and talking politically and morally, of course i want the people of Saudi Arabia to have the same enjoyment and freedom i do, I think it's perfectly acceptable that you can have both these things go hand in hand.

Well put.

As is all this.

[Donkey Toon]

Man City, Wolves, Sheffield Utd … all owned by people from countries with oppressive regimes. For all we know these owners may even dislike their own regimes as much as we do. But that is a massive difference to being owned by the people responsible for deciding and implementing an oppressive regime. We would be alone in that distinction.

There would be fans all around the world who would start hating our club for that reason alone and that base would grow with every success. And if the Saudi's ever decided to call it a day the stain on our club would carry on for generations. May even put off any other future investors.

There are loads of people who still hate Leeds just because they were considered a "dirty" team in the 1970's.

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

We are football fans, football is an escape for many people and personally I dont like to mix the politics and questions of morality with my biggest joy in life. All I'm concerned with in supporting my football team is that it moves forward as a football club and increases my enjoyment of the sport, the moment I start being concerned with morality and politics in my one escape is the moment I'll lose all enjoyment from watching us.

To answer the question yes I'd be against someone with the same controversies as SA who was on the same level as Ashley because I want my football team to progress, that's what I care about when supporting my football team.

Away from football and talking politically and morally, of course i want the people of Saudi Arabia to have the same enjoyment and freedom i do, I think it's perfectly acceptable that you can have both these things go hand in hand.

Well put.

Very well put.

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

Man City, Wolves, Sheffield Utd … all owned by people from countries with oppressive regimes. For all we know these owners may even dislike their own regimes as much as we do. But that is a massive difference to being owned by the people responsible for deciding and implementing an oppressive regime. We would be alone in that distinction.

There would be fans all around the world who would start hating our club for that reason alone and that base would grow with every success. And if the Saudi's ever decided to call it a day the stain on our club would carry on for generations. May even put off any other future investors.

There are loads of people who still hate Leeds just because they were considered a "dirty" team in the 1970's.

To be honest, I don’t know anyone who looks down on those clubs because of who owns them. All I want is owners with a bit more ambition than the current one.

[Remember Colo]

I'm not saying this about any fans on here, or even outside the forum - this is about to be a real tangent. But to someone's earlier post about the sometimes contradictory political opinions some people have; it's common to see in the US a lot of anti-Islamic discrimination, obviously since 911 that's gone up, and support of their anti-Islamic immigration policies, etc. And yet the same supporters will then defend choices to strengthen relations with Saudi Arabia.

Or even in a sillier matter, see the same thing with a lot of conservative American WWE fans criticizing "left-wing snowflakes" for complaining about WWE's partnership with Saudi Arabia. It just seems acrobatic to me for anyone who is racist towards Muslims to also say "it's not my place to judge the politics or culture of these Islamic nations" when it's politically convenient. Obviously we all do some hypocritical things, but I do find it fascinating how party loyalty can influence perspective on those sensitive issues and create some contradictions.

I'll reinforce though, I'm not saying this is what's happening here. I get that some people will be able to separate football from politics more than others, and there's nothing wrong with that. And I certainly won't make assumptions about people's broader political leanings on here based on takeover talk.

[BigMarket]

Would you be happy if Kim Jong-un replaced Ashley?

[TJR]

Yep.

Or Sheffield United who already have Saudi ownership not to mention Wolves owned by the Chinese

This is just proving the points already made my those skeptical about Saudi ownership.

What point?

The one that Sheffield United were all devastated at promotion to the Premier League and turned their backs on the club as they didn't want to be associated with Saudi money?

Were Wolves fans refusing to celebrate qualifying for Europe until China improves its human rights record?

Rather than celebrating another league title last season were Man City fans instead protesting against the ownership of Sheikh Mansour?

Were Chelsea fans demanding Abramovich served jail time for his crimes rather than celebrating their first Premier League win back in 2005?

[Colly]

Yep I think it's really important to realise this isn't a simple "virtue signalling lefties" vs "politically non caring brexiteers" thing, and I'm glad we've just about avoided going that way.

I genuinely really hope this falls through though, I've always been against the idea of the trillionaire sugardaddy owner in general, but adding the extra context just hugely sours me on it.

[Blue & Maroon]

This is just proving the points already made my those skeptical about Saudi ownership.

What point?

The one that Sheffield United were all devastated at promotion to the Premier League and turned their backs on the club as they didn't want to be associated with Saudi money?

Were Wolves fans refusing to celebrate qualifying for Europe until China improves its human rights record?

Rather than celebrating another league title last season were Man City fans instead protesting against the ownership of Sheikh Mansour?

Were Chelsea fans demanding Abramovich served jail time for his crimes rather than celebrating their first Premier League win back in 2005?

Again just proving my point. Putting the success of your football club over morals. Make the stand, be the difference. You care more about your football clubs success and put your hatred over Ashley over any doubts about being owned by one of the must disgusting regimes on the planet.

Money in football isn't the evil, it's needed and always has been since the 1950's for success, where it's coming from is the problem.

[Remember Colo]

The issue that keeps coming into my head and is really bugging me is this nagging conclusion. Apologies in advance if it offends anybody.

Suppose instead of the Saudi Royal Family the proposed takeover was by an equally repulsive dictator from some small Middle-Eastern, African or Latin American nation. Where they had also plundered the wealth of the country and then raised the funds to make an equal purchasing bid, but with the less attractive prospect of transfer funds and cash injections roughly comparable to those Ashley has put in. Would all the supporters of the Saudi bid be going through the same mental gymnastics to come up with reasons why they are justified in being okay with it. Or, as I suspect, would the reaction be "f*** right off, why would we want an even scummier owner with no more cash to spend than Ashley!"

So I keep coming back to the conclusion that there are fans who are willing to discard their natural moral inclination to oppose this deal because the prospects of money and/or success have overridden the "angels of their better nature", to coin a phrase.

I'm not going to lie I am really disappointed and disillusioned at the prospect that this is truly the case.

We are football fans, football is an escape for many people and personally I dont like to mix the politics and questions of morality with my biggest joy in life. All I'm concerned with in supporting my football team is that it moves forward as a football club and increases my enjoyment of the sport, the moment I start being concerned with morality and politics in my one escape is the moment I'll lose all enjoyment from watching us.

To answer the question yes I'd be against someone with the same controversies as SA who was on the same level as Ashley because I want my football team to progress, that's what I care about when supporting my football team.

Away from football and talking politically and morally, of course i want the people of Saudi Arabia to have the same enjoyment and freedom i do, I think it's perfectly acceptable that you can have both these things go hand in hand.

I can understand you feeling that way, and I think that first line is actually an important common ground for all of us fans. I think for all of us, football is that escape, whether from work, world events, politics, whatever. And that's why some of us are expressing our concern right now is because we are afraid that we'll lose enjoyment from watching us. I'm certainly not going to judge you or anyone else who can manage to separate football from the political intentions of the owners, but I'm really afraid I won't be able to, and it seems easier if I wouldn't have to.

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

What point?

The one that Sheffield United were all devastated at promotion to the Premier League and turned their backs on the club as they didn't want to be associated with Saudi money?

Were Wolves fans refusing to celebrate qualifying for Europe until China improves its human rights record?

Rather than celebrating another league title last season were Man City fans instead protesting against the ownership of Sheikh Mansour?

Were Chelsea fans demanding Abramovich served jail time for his crimes rather than celebrating their first Premier League win back in 2005?

Again just proving my point. Putting the success of your football club over morals. Make the stand, be the difference. You care more about your football clubs success and put your hatred over Ashley over any doubts about being owned by one of the must disgusting regimes on the planet.

Money in football isn't the evil, it's needed and always has been since the 1950's for success, where it's coming from is the problem.

So you’ll stop supporting the club if the takeover goes through?
Man Cities support grew when they got took over. Do you think they give a toss?

[Blue & Maroon]

Again just proving my point. Putting the success of your football club over morals. Make the stand, be the difference. You care more about your football clubs success and put your hatred over Ashley over any doubts about being owned by one of the must disgusting regimes on the planet.

Money in football isn't the evil, it's needed and always has been since the 1950's for success, where it's coming from is the problem.

So you’ll stop supporting the club if the takeover goes through?
Man Cities support grew when they got took over. Do you think they give a toss?

[Donkey Toon]

I keep imagining Ricky Gervais saying "If Isis bought your football club and ploughed in billions of pounds for transfers you be straight down the ticket office buying a season ticket!"

After all Saudi Arabia has been described as the Isis that succeeded.

Sorry but there is a word for people who put personal progress/achievement ahead of moral or legal concerns, especially when money is concerned. It is nine letters, begins with an M and ends in ary.

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

So you’ll stop supporting the club if the takeover goes through?
Man Cities support grew when they got took over. Do you think they give a toss?

Your point seems to be to put morals over the club. Am I wrong? I don’t agree with what happens there, but are the potential new owners connected with it? Will it stop me supporting Newcastle? Will it f***.

[Don Sholeone]

Whatever your view I think it's important to not take other peoples point of view too personally, I think it's great we can have an in depth discussion about it, but maybe we should try to cool down a bit, I think the conversation has nearly been derailed a few times because of this.

[Blue & Maroon]

Your point seems to be to put morals over the club. Am I wrong? I don’t agree with what happens there, but are the potential new owners connected with it? Will it stop me supporting Newcastle? Will it f***.

Will it stop me loving my club? No. Will it stop me going to games, celebrating wins, cups etc? Yes.

What happens in Saudi is completely incompatible with my world view.